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Author Topic: Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle  (Read 18317 times)

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle
« Reply #190 on: September 29, 2019, 10:42:25 PM »
The weapons were allegedly picked up at different places:  the rifle at the post office and the revolver at Railway Express.  But there is no evidence of such pickup in either place by Oswald or anybody else.

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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle
« Reply #190 on: September 29, 2019, 10:42:25 PM »

Offline Andrew Mason

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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle
« Reply #191 on: October 01, 2019, 06:28:04 PM »
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The weapons were allegedly picked up at different places:  the rifle at the post office and the revolver at Railway Express.  But there is no evidence of such pickup in either place by Oswald or anybody else.
It is not necessary to determine who picked them up but we can draw a reasonable inference that they were probably picked up by Oswald because:

1. He wrote the order - his handwriting was verified by Marina;
2. He carried photo ID in the name of the consignee A. Hidell;
3. He was in possession of guns that are indistinguishable from those shipped shortly after they were mailed  (backyard pictures, Gen. Walker shooting admission, Marina identified rifle, etc.)


Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle
« Reply #192 on: October 01, 2019, 06:50:59 PM »
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It is not necessary to determine who picked them up but we can draw a reasonable inference that they were probably picked up by Oswald because:

1. He wrote the order - his handwriting was verified by Marina;
2. He carried photo ID in the name of the consignee A. Hidell;
3. He was in possession of guns that are indistinguishable from those shipped shortly after they were mailed  (backyard pictures, Gen. Walker shooting admission, Marina identified rifle, etc.)

3. He was in possession of guns that are indistinguishable from those shipped shortly after they were mailed 

"indistinguishable".... an excellent choice of a word....    Researchers have been debating this point for decades....   

I believe that Lee ordered a carcano from Klein's Sporting Goods.......after he and De morhenschildt picked it out of a magazine ad.

I'm inclined to agree with those who believe that Lee possessed a Carcano that was very similar to the carcano that was found in the TSBD and the TSBD rifle may? be the same rifle that appears in the BY photo CE 133A ....But there are definite differences ( distinguishable)  between the TSBD carcano and the rifle in Lee's hand's in CE 133A.   

And as to the pistol....  I'm not at all convinced that the pistol he is wearing on his right hip in CE 133A is a S&W model 10.....  IMO the pistol on his hip looks like a western style six shooter.

   

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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle
« Reply #192 on: October 01, 2019, 06:50:59 PM »

Online Jerry Freeman

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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle
« Reply #193 on: October 01, 2019, 08:52:19 PM »
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It is not necessary to determine who picked them up but we can draw a reasonable inference that they were probably picked up by Oswald because:
Let's stop right there with the conjecture. Supposedly... the weapons were conveyed around whenever and wherever Oswald changed location. Let's follow the pistol...
Quote
Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall when he first had the pistol, that you remember?
Mrs. OSWALD. He had that on Neely Street, but I think that he acquired the rifle before he acquired the pistol. The pistol I saw twice once in his room, and the second time when I took these photographs.
Mr. RANKIN. What period of time was there between when he got the rifle and you learned of it, and the time that you first learned about the pistol?
Mrs. OSWALD. I can't say.
Their own timeline investigation states that the weapons were obtained on the same day.
 
Quote
Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall the day that you took the picture of him with the rifle and the pistol?
Mrs. OSWALD. I think that that was towards the end of February, possibly the beginning of March. I can't say exactly. Because I didn't attach any significance to it at the time. That was the only time I took any pictures.
The only time that Marina ever took any pictures...Of Lee with the weapons [she claimed]--But put no significance on the event? :-[
Quote
Mr. RANKIN. Was the rifle carried in some kind of a case when you went back with Mrs. Paine?
Mrs. OSWALD. After we arrived, I tried to put the bed, the child's crib together, the metallic parts, and I looked for a certain part, and I came upon something wrapped in a blanket. I thought that was part of the bed, but it turned out to be the rifle.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you remember whether the pistol was carried back in Mrs. Paine's car too?
Mrs. OSWALD. I don't know where the pistol was.
So...where in hell was that doggoned pistol?
There was no discussion of Oswald going to the pistol range...just took the rifle out to the airport---- 
Quote
  Mr. RANKIN. Mrs. Oswald, if I may return a moment with you to the time that you told us about your husband practicing with the rifle at Love Field. As I recall your testimony, you said that he told you that he had taken the rifle and practiced with it there, is that right?
Mrs. OSWALD. I knew that he practiced with it there. He told me, later.
At Love Field Airport  :D..it cracks me up every time I see that. The Warren people knew that Marina was lying but they just let her ramble on.
At the HSCA hearing, the pistol was only mentioned twice...
Quote
Mr. PREYER. So that he went by bus to New Orleans, but he had packed his belongings and those were sent where?
Mrs. PORTER. Usually during the moving, Lee was always doing that. He was the one who did all the packing, not me.
Mr. PREYER. So that you and Mrs. Paine later brought all of the,----
Mrs. PORTER. Yes.
Mr. PREYER [continuing]. Remaining luggage?
Mrs. PORTER. Yes.
Mr. PREYER. Including the rifle.
Rather than being a question....Preyer just made the assumption for everyone.
This is from the Clay Shaw trial----
Quote
Q: Did you ever see Lee with a pistol?
A: I don't remember now, sir.
Q: You don't remember seeing him with a pistol?
A: No....... ???
Q: Is it a fact you took a picture of him with a pistol and a rifle?
A: Yes, sir, I recall right now.
Q: When did you first see the pistol?
A: The thing was, sir, when I took the picture I didn't know how to take a picture -- even right now don't know -- I just took the picture, and later on in the picture I saw that.
Q: You didn't see the pistol when you were taking the picture?
A: No. I mean it happened to there, but I didn't. I can't recall exactly when I saw the pistol.
I have no idea what that last reply meant.
So Ruth and Marina loaded the car with stuff including the weapons [we are led to believe] but they had no idea that there were guns in the car. We are further told to believe that Marina and Ruth returned with at least the rifle and they had no clue that it was there. That leaves two probabilities....One-that Ruth and Marina were both complete mindless idiots..Or- two- that there never were any guns. Now believe what you want.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2019, 11:09:11 PM by Jerry Freeman »

Offline Otto Beck

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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle
« Reply #194 on: October 01, 2019, 09:42:39 PM »
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It is not necessary to determine who picked them up but we can draw a reasonable inference that they were probably picked up by Oswald because:

1. He wrote the order - his handwriting was verified by Marina;
2. He carried photo ID in the name of the consignee A. Hidell;
3. He was in possession of guns that are indistinguishable from those shipped shortly after they were mailed  (backyard pictures, Gen. Walker shooting admission, Marina identified rifle, etc.)

Marina verified -- LOL

Marina identified -- LOL

He carried photo ID -- LOL

They were mailed -- LOL

Because Mason said so -- ROFL

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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle
« Reply #194 on: October 01, 2019, 09:42:39 PM »

Offline John Mytton

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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle
« Reply #195 on: October 02, 2019, 02:35:20 AM »
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Two weapons ...Ordered a month apart...

It looks like both Kleins and Seaport Traders invoiced Oswald's orders on the 13th of March?





JohnM

Online Thomas Graves

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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle
« Reply #196 on: October 02, 2019, 02:45:20 AM »
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It looks like both Kleins and Seaport Traders invoiced Oswald's orders on the 13th of March?



Wow, John, you would think that the evil, evil, evil, evil, evil bad guys would have been smarter than to do something so clearly and obviously ... gasp ... obvious!

--  MWT   ;)

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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle
« Reply #196 on: October 02, 2019, 02:45:20 AM »

Online Jerry Freeman

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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle
« Reply #197 on: October 02, 2019, 03:04:44 AM »
Quote
January 28, 1962: LHO orders a .38 caliber Smith and Wesson revolver by mail.
Actually, 1962 is a typo-- should be 1963.
Quote
March 12, 1963:   LHO orders a rifle from Klein's Sporting Goods in Chicago.
March 20, 1963: The rifle and the revolver are shipped.
March 25, 1963: LHO picks up the weapons.
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BTW--- an invoice date does not necessarily mean it was shipped on that exact day.
Quote
What you mean by invoice?
Definition: An invoice is a document issued by a seller to the buyer that indicates the quantities and costs of the products or services provider by the seller. ... Payment terms indicate the maximum amount of time that a buyer has to pay for the goods and/or services that they have purchased from the seller.
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« Last Edit: October 02, 2019, 03:13:03 AM by Jerry Freeman »

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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle
« Reply #197 on: October 02, 2019, 03:04:44 AM »

Offline David Von Pein

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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle
« Reply #198 on: October 02, 2019, 03:54:28 AM »
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Two weapons ...Ordered a month apart...yet conveniently arrive on the very same exact day?

I think it's fairly clear from the Seaport records that Oswald didn't mail the order form for the pistol in January. The Seaport order coupon says "January 27", yes. But that doesn't mean it was put in a mailbox on Jan. 27. He probably mailed the order forms for both the revolver and the rifle on the same day (March 12). Otherwise there would be an inexplicably long (month-and-a-half) delay in processing the Seaport revolver order, which does not seem likely at all.

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« Last Edit: October 02, 2019, 04:05:16 AM by David Von Pein »

Offline John Mytton

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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle
« Reply #199 on: October 02, 2019, 04:36:32 AM »
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Actually, 1962 is a typo-- should be 1963.You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

The 1/27 date written on the coupon is no indication of when it was posted!



Quote
BTW--- an invoice date does not necessarily mean it was shipped on that exact day.

Huh? An order form is invoiced and dated when the coupon is initially processed and the shipping date is when the product is shipped.





JohnM


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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle
« Reply #199 on: October 02, 2019, 04:36:32 AM »

 

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