Prayer Woman

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Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #1141 on: February 14, 2019, 12:22:31 AM »
Buell certainly said that Oswald left by the rear entrance (in the 2002 C-Span interview which is readily available online). Some people here would call you a fabricator rather than revisit that interview.

Wrong.  Frazier never claimed to see him come out the rear door.

Offline Tim Nickerson

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #1142 on: February 14, 2019, 03:03:57 AM »
Congratulations on your sobriety, Mr Nickerson!  Thumb1:

Bah! Sobriety is overrated.

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #1143 on: February 14, 2019, 08:33:03 PM »
Friends!

Imagine there were no PrayerMan figure standing on the west side of the entranceway in the Darnell and Wiegman films. Imagine just an empty, person-less space there.

Now! Imagine further that the Hosty note comes to light. Eyebrows are raised, but the consensus line amongst seasoned researchers is, 'Okay, but Oswald was clearly lying about going out front to watch the parade. There's nowhere in that entranceway he can be! He's not in Altgens! And it's just too crowded over on the east side!'

Valid grounds for disbelieving Mr Oswald's claim? Sure.

But! That is not where we are in reality. There is a figure on the west side of that entranceway. This figure strikes many, many people as bearing a striking resemblance to Mr Oswald.



Something very simple follows from the above:

To say that Prayer Man is not Mr Oswald is to say----------by implication-----------that he lied about going "outside to watch the P. Parade".

For there's really nowhere else Mr Oswald could be that is at once "outside" and "in the building" (i.e. the roofed entranceway).

Just as there is no other viable candidate than Mr Oswald for Prayer Man, so there is no other viable candidate than Prayer Man for Mr Oswald!

And to say that Mr Oswald's claim to have been out front is a lie is to leave wholly unaccounted for the established fact that Captain Fritz and co. lied by omission about Mr Oswald's precise claim as to his whereabouts during the motorcade.

Is it not much simpler to accept the obvious implication of Captain Fritz and co.'s lie-by-omission, to wit: Captain Fritz and co. knew that Mr Oswald had a sound alibi and conspired to bury it?

Once one accepts this simple proposition, all the anomalies and absurdities go up in a puff of smoke. The thing makes sense for the first time in 55 years.

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« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 10:51:16 PM by Alan Ford »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #1144 on: February 14, 2019, 09:04:00 PM »
Mr Lovelady in the Hughes film.



Behind him can be seen a figure in the Prayer Man spot.

I believe the figure just to Prayer Man's left is... Mr Bill Shelley.

'Out with Bill Shell[e]y in front'


Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #1145 on: February 14, 2019, 10:39:00 PM »
Mr Lovelady in the Hughes film.



Behind him can be seen a figure in the Prayer Man spot.

I believe the figure just to Prayer Man's left is... Mr Bill Shelley.

'Out with Bill Shell[e]y in front'

If these IDs of the people in the Altgens photo and Wiegman film are sound (apart, of course, from Ms Stanton, whom we know to be to Mr Frazier's left at this time)-------------



-------------then we can understand that, between Hughes and Wiegman,
A) Mr Lovelady, order to follow the motorcade down Elm St, has stepped back to a higher level and near the centre of the stairway
B) Mr Shelley, in reaction to Mr Lovelady's movement and/or in order to follow the motorcade down Elm St, has stepped back to a higher level and a little further east.

Prayer Man (Mr Oswald) remains in the same position from Hughes to Wiegman.

From Wiegman to Darnell, he will remain in the same spot, though his posture may well change:



Thumb1:

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #1146 on: February 14, 2019, 11:32:29 PM »
If these IDs of the people in the Altgens photo and Wiegman film are sound (apart, of course, from Ms Stanton, whom we know to be to Mr Frazier's left at this time)-------------



-------------then we can understand that, between Hughes and Wiegman,
A) Mr Lovelady, order to follow the motorcade down Elm St, has stepped back to a higher level and near the centre of the stairway
B) Mr Shelley, in reaction to Mr Lovelady's movement and/or in order to follow the motorcade down Elm St, has stepped back to a higher level and a little further east.

Prayer Man (Mr Oswald) remains in the same position from Hughes to Wiegman.

From Wiegman to Darnell, he will remain in the same spot, though his posture may well change:



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Now! What happens next?

Let's hand over to Mr James Jarman (HSCA interview 9.25.77):

JARMAN: Well, there was a Billy Lovelady standing out there, he was on the steps, see.
INTERVIEWER: Oh.
JARMAN: And, Oswald was coming out the door and he said the police had stopped Oswald and sent him back in the building, Billy Lovelady said that Mr. Truly told the policeman that Oswald was alright, that he worked there, so Oswald walked on down the stairs.


If that's Mr Lovelady near the bottom west of the steps in Darnell, then we can work out the sequence of events:

-------Officer Baker rushes past Mr Lovelady and up the steps
-------Mr Lovelady turns around to look up after him
-------He sees the police officer grabbing hold of Mr Oswald (whom Mr Lovelady notices now for the first time) and pulling him into the vestibule, shouting, 'Do you work here?'
-------Mr Lovelady misunderstands the encounter------Mr Oswald is not 'coming out the door', he's been there all along!; and all Officer Baker is doing is seeking assistance from the first man he can grab
-------Mr Truly, meanwhile, has followed Officer Baker up the steps... he offers to give the police officer the assistance he is seeking ('Yes he works here, officer, but I'm the building manager, I'll help you').

Now!

Mr Lovelady's mistaken interpretation of this exchange between Mr Oswald and Officer Baker-----------i.e. he thinks the officer has aggressively 'stopped' Mr Oswald from leaving the building and Mr Truly has stepped in to vouch for his employee------------is exactly the story that DPD will be telling the press about later this day:

Oswald was stopped by one of our officers as he tried to leave the building, but the officer, who was rushing into the building, let him go when the building manager told him Oswald worked there.

Friends, the coincidence between Mr Jarman's account and the first-day DPD line is no coincidence at all!

---------------> Mr Oswald went out to watch the Presidential Parade.
---------------> He was standing beside Mr Shelley as the President was passing.
---------------> Just after the shooting, a police officer did come running in to the 1st floor, grabbing Mr Oswald and pulling him into the vestibule.

This is the real 'lunchroom incident', and Mr Oswald told Captain Fritz all about it!

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« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 11:36:13 PM by Alan Ford »

Offline Tim Nickerson

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #1147 on: February 15, 2019, 02:44:48 AM »
Now! What happens next?

Let's hand over to Mr James Jarman (HSCA interview 9.25.77):

JARMAN: Well, there was a Billy Lovelady standing out there, he was on the steps, see.
INTERVIEWER: Oh.
JARMAN: And, Oswald was coming out the door and he said the police had stopped Oswald and sent him back in the building, Billy Lovelady said that Mr. Truly told the policeman that Oswald was alright, that he worked there, so Oswald walked on down the stairs.


If that's Mr Lovelady near the bottom west of the steps in Darnell, then we can work out the sequence of events:

-------Officer Baker rushes past Mr Lovelady and up the steps
-------Mr Lovelady turns around to look up after him
-------He sees the police officer grabbing hold of Mr Oswald (whom Mr Lovelady notices now for the first time) and pulling him into the vestibule, shouting, 'Do you work here?'
-------Mr Lovelady misunderstands the encounter------Mr Oswald is not 'coming out the door', he's been there all along!; and all Officer Baker is doing is seeking assistance from the first man he can grab
-------Mr Truly, meanwhile, has followed Officer Baker up the steps... he offers to give the police officer the assistance he is seeking ('Yes he works here, officer, but I'm the building manager, I'll help you').

Now!

Mr Lovelady's mistaken interpretation of this exchange between Mr Oswald and Officer Baker-----------i.e. he thinks the officer has aggressively 'stopped' Mr Oswald from leaving the building and Mr Truly has stepped in to vouch for his employee------------is exactly the story that DPD will be telling the press about later this day:

Oswald was stopped by one of our officers as he tried to leave the building, but the officer, who was rushing into the building, let him go when the building manager told him Oswald worked there.

Friends, the coincidence between Mr Jarman's account and the first-day DPD line is no coincidence at all!

---------------> Mr Oswald went out to watch the Presidential Parade.
---------------> He was standing beside Mr Shelley as the President was passing.
---------------> Just after the shooting, a police officer did come running in to the 1st floor, grabbing Mr Oswald and pulling him into the vestibule.

This is the real 'lunchroom incident', and Mr Oswald told Captain Fritz all about it!

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"B" is not Otis Williams. "E" is Otis Williams.