Prayer Woman

[Barry Pollard]

That's not a bad way of looking at it sure but we cannot now exactly where Cabell's vehicle is in Altgens, if it's already commited to it's turn onto Elm but just out of shot, then the difference could be around a second but, 2-3s could work also.
Myers has been accused f cooking the books to make things fit and the speed at which vehicles turned that corner part of the problem, whether he gains or loses more than half a second by doing so I'm not sure. If it was easy to get all those sources to line up, his study would be a lot, lot shorter.

[John Iacoletti]

You misunderstand (wilfully, I suspect): Frazier has many, many times identified Stanton as standing beside him on the landing. He obviously has a strong memory/association of her being there. Yet when shown PP, and pressed as to who it might be, she has not even entered into his head as a candidate. All he has been 'able' to offer is: Well, it's not Billy Lovelady or Bill Shelley, coz they'd already left the steps.

What does this tell us? Simply this: Stanton was to his left, she didn't do a cartwheel way over to his right between JFK turning onto Elm and Wiegman starting to film, and PP looks nothing like her.

I'm not following your logic here.  Has it ever entered into Frazier's head that LHO is a candidate?

This is not complicated, John. The Stanton theory is dead. It's not pining. It's dead. Your refusal to acknowledge this speaks only to your bias, your glib approach to the topic, and your glaring inability to come up with a credible non-LHO candidate.

I'm only noting that it doesn't take much for you to declare a candidate dead.  At least we actually know that Stanton was out on the steps.

That would have been ideal, but if Stanton made the understandable decision to opt for a quiet life and not tell the 'investigators' about LHO by the second-floor lunchroom, then who are we to judge? Besides, the FBI would only have done a Carolyn Arnold on her statement.

That's probably true, but I don't know how she could have anticipated that prior to making her statement.

Luckily, however, she told a consistent story to her family over the years of seeing LHO by the second-floor lunchroom before the assassination. With a coke in his hand. I see no good reason to accuse her-----or Rose and Wanda-----of lying. Do you?

In general, I prefer first hand information over second hand information.  Particularly when many years have passed.  Human memory is not accurate or reliable.

And yet you refuse to dismiss a claim that has been demonstrated to be untrue (Stanton=LHO). Ho hum.

I'm still waiting for that demonstration.

[Barry Pollard]

Have you studied Myers' contribution to this problem or not?

[Chris Davidson]

Many many people have tried to find one.  And have never been successful.  Just some group photos from high school and a picture of his brother.

Interesting!!!
The Jack Dougherty listed as a sophmore in 1941 doesn't appear in his jun/senior yearbooks of 42/43.
The age quote from his testimony doesn't work either unless he was referred to as "Redfern" and graduated at the age of 14.

[Mark A. Oblazney]

I still say it was a dude taking pictures with a camera, and that your conclusions are defective, IMHO.

[Barry Pollard]

Your approach is neither scientific nor forensic Brian and no one ever called a study on this case by Myers irrelevant, wrong, biased perhaps but never irrelevant.
If I'm reading Chris correctly he thinks that Myers is out by around two seconds for the start of Wiegman but nevermind all the calculations and study just stick to Youtube and eyeballing it.

[Barry Pollard]

James is also of the opinion that Lovelady is on the landing in W1 but has placed Lovelady on the top step for Altgens despite that opinion, in the photo forum, go check it out and tell him why you think he's wrong.

What Frazier said 20/30/50 years later doesn't effect me much.
Altgens was much lower than both subjects, so that percieved 2" may not be as reliable as you think.
"I wasn't able to see it" does not require an obsticle, it only requires our imperfect memory and looking the other way.
Shelley could have seen the limo if he wanted to, Lovelady obviously did and went out of his way to do so, could that be a reaction to a noise which Shelley ignored?  Who cares?
Stanton does not have to be on the steps, just like Truly and Cambell do not have to be stood together, I've not yet gone out of my way to find her and PM is obviously a man and has skinny arms as you well know. Hope that helps.