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Author Topic: Dr. Baden Refuted the Single-Bullet Theory  (Read 899 times)

Online John Corbett

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Re: Dr. Baden Refuted the Single-Bullet Theory
« Reply #21 on: Yesterday at 04:59:44 PM »
No, the 45 degree angle bullet track through JBC is a fact. Dr Shaw never refuted it. He never mentioned it. Dr Shaw was part of the WC testimonies not the HSCA Panel. How could he refute any of their findings?

The description of the wounds and the medical analysis by the doctors are facts. Everything else is your pretend make-believe nonsense. Your made-up hypothetical crap does not mean anything to anybody. Is this Single Bullet Theory the lynchpin of your whole ridiculous conspiracy theory? Is that why you pretend
these opinions of yours have some kind of merit, and they are just unfounded opinions.

In looking over his right shoulder, JBC would naturally lean back a little and that would increase the downward angle of the bullet through his body. I would bet that Shaw's description was just an estimate. What are the chances it would actually be 45 degrees.

Online Michael T. Griffith

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Re: Dr. Baden Refuted the Single-Bullet Theory
« Reply #22 on: Yesterday at 09:07:46 PM »
The replies from WC defenders amount to this position:

"Never mind that no bullet fired from the sixth-floor window could have hit JFK's back at an upward angle and then passed through his neck at an upward angle. Never mind that this means no bullet from the sixth-floor window could have exited JFK's throat at a downward angle, much less at a 25-degree downward angle. Never mind that we therefore cannot get a bullet from JFK's throat to Connally's back in the first place, unless we're willing to rule out the sixth-floor window as the source of the shot. Just never mind these facts.

"We will continue to excuse ourselves from credibly dealing with these facts until you provide us with a non-SBT trajectory through Connally -- and the trajectory has to be one that we are willing to accept, but of course we will never accept any such trajectory because that would raise further doubt about the SBT.

"Moreover, we will continue to refuse to acknowledge the self-evident implications of the hard physical evidence of JFK's clothing, specifically, the fact that JFK's tie, including the tie knot, had no bullet hole through it, and that the nick on the tie knot was not on the edge of the knot but was visibly inward from the edge, because acknowledging the import of these facts would mean admitting that no bullet exited the throat. In the case of the SBT, we judge fact by theory, not the other way around."


We should keep in mind that the HSCA FPP's SBT does not merely require that JFK's head was tilted substantially forward but that his upper torso was tilted substantially forward as well, as Dr. Baden was nice enough to demonstrate.

As many here know, I am by no means the first researcher to note that the HSCA FPP's SBT is actually fatal to the SBT because no photo or footage shows JFK leaning so far forward during the SBT's timeframe. By acknowledging that the WC placed the back wound at least 2.5 inches too high and that the bullet hit and tunneled at an upward angle, the FPP actually destroyed the SBT. Dr. Wecht repeatedly made this point in his presentations on the SBT.

As I documented in a previous reply, both the NOVA and the Dale Myers SBT trajectory animations have JFK's upper torso virtually upright and have his head either upright (NOVA) or tilted only slightly forward (Myers), and they have the bullet traveling a downward path from the back wound to the throat wound.

And, of course, Lattimer's bogus SBT diagrams, which continue to be used by many WC apologists to this very day, show JFK sitting upright with his head upright, place the back wound visibly above the throat wound, show the bullet traveling downward through the neck, and show the bullet exiting the neck at a downward angle of at least 20 degrees.

No WC apologist has yet produced an SBT trajectory illustration that takes into account the forensic facts pointed out by the HSCA FPP regarding the back wound's upward trajectory, the upward trajectory through the neck, and the pronounced forward lean required to make that trajectory align with the sixth-floor window.

Indeed, even the NASA expert whom the HSCA hired to do their headshot and SBT trajectory analyses, Dr. Thomas Canning, simply ignored the HSCA FPP's diagram showing JFK's forward lean (7 HSCA 100, Figure 12) and instead showed JFK sitting virtually upright with his head virtually upright as well (2 HSCA 177, JFK Exhibit F-142). Incredibly, Canning also impossibly showed the back wound above the throat wound and showed the bullet exiting at a point visibly below JFK's throat wound.

Online Tom Graves

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Re: Dr. Baden Refuted the Single-Bullet Theory
« Reply #23 on: Yesterday at 09:12:58 PM »
[...]

Dear Comrade Griffith,

Are you a KGB agent?

You sound like a KGB agent.

-- Tom

Online John Corbett

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Re: Dr. Baden Refuted the Single-Bullet Theory
« Reply #24 on: Today at 01:32:05 AM »
The replies from WC defenders amount to this position:

"Never mind that no bullet fired from the sixth-floor window could have hit JFK's back at an upward angle and then passed through his neck at an upward angle. Never mind that this means no bullet from the sixth-floor window could have exited JFK's throat at a downward angle, much less at a 25-degree downward angle. Never mind that we therefore cannot get a bullet from JFK's throat to Connally's back in the first place, unless we're willing to rule out the sixth-floor window as the source of the shot. Just never mind these facts.

Another of your FUBAR premises for which you are so well known. No bullet hit JFK in the back on the an upward angle. If you think so, tell us where it could ahve been fired from that made sense. 
Quote

"We will continue to excuse ourselves from credibly dealing with these facts until you provide us with a non-SBT trajectory through Connally -- and the trajectory has to be one that we are willing to accept, but of course we will never accept any such trajectory because that would raise further doubt about the SBT.

"Moreover, we will continue to refuse to acknowledge the self-evident implications of the hard physical evidence of JFK's clothing, specifically, the fact that JFK's tie, including the tie knot, had no bullet hole through it, and that the nick on the tie knot was not on the edge of the knot but was visibly inward from the edge, because acknowledging the import of these facts would mean admitting that no bullet exited the throat. In the case of the SBT, we judge fact by theory, not the other way around."[/font]

In addition to your faulty premises, you seem to thrive on refuting strawman arguments that no one has made. It's a lot easier than dealing with things people have actually said in defense of the WCR.
Quote

We should keep in mind that the HSCA FPP's SBT does not merely require that JFK's head was tilted substantially forward but that his upper torso was tilted substantially forward as well, as Dr. Baden was nice enough to demonstrate.

Another of MGT's traits is on display here, conflating two separate issues. The SBT had nothing to do with the head shot.
Quote

As many here know, I am by no means the first researcher to note that the HSCA FPP's SBT is actually fatal to the SBT because no photo or footage shows JFK leaning so far forward during the SBT's timeframe. By acknowledging that the WC placed the back wound at least 2.5 inches too high and that the bullet hit and tunneled at an upward angle, the FPP actually destroyed the SBT. Dr. Wecht repeatedly made this point in his presentations on the SBT.

You seem to know a lot of things that just ain't so.
Quote


As I documented in a previous reply, both the NOVA and the Dale Myers SBT trajectory animations have JFK's upper torso virtually upright and have his head either upright (NOVA) or tilted only slightly forward (Myers), and they have the bullet traveling a downward path from the back wound to the throat wound.

Yes they do and they show the SBT works when JFK and JBC are positioned correctly.
Quote

And, of course, Lattimer's bogus SBT diagrams, which continue to be used by many WC apologists to this very day, show JFK sitting upright with his head upright, place the back wound visibly above the throat wound, show the bullet traveling downward through the neck, and show the bullet exiting the neck at a downward angle of at least 20 degrees.

I've never seen Lattimer's diagrams so I can't speak to their validity. I do know that I'm not going to take your word on what he has said.
Quote

No WC apologist has yet produced an SBT trajectory illustration that takes into account the forensic facts pointed out by the HSCA FPP regarding the back wound's upward trajectory, the upward trajectory through the neck, and the pronounced forward lean required to make that trajectory align with the sixth-floor window.

Indeed, even the NASA expert whom the HSCA hired to do their headshot and SBT trajectory analyses, Dr. Thomas Canning, simply ignored the HSCA FPP's diagram showing JFK's forward lean (7 HSCA 100, Figure 12) and instead showed JFK sitting virtually upright with his head virtually upright as well (2 HSCA 177, JFK Exhibit F-142). Incredibly, Canning also impossibly showed the back wound above the throat wound and showed the bullet exiting at a point visibly below JFK's throat wound.

Misconceptions are not facts whether they are yours or the HSCA's. The HSCA got lot's of things wrong, including their conclusion of a probable fourth shot and a conspiracy to kill JFK. WC defenders are not obligated to also defend the HSCA.

Offline Tim Nickerson

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Re: Dr. Baden Refuted the Single-Bullet Theory
« Reply #25 on: Today at 01:47:47 AM »
Another of your FUBAR premises for which you are so well known. No bullet hit JFK in the back on the an upward angle. If you think so, tell us where it could ahve been fired from that made sense. 

Michael T. Griffith professes a Christian faith. Yet he continues to repeat the false claim that the HSCA's FPP concluded that the bullet entered JFK at an upward angle? What are reasonable people to make of that? Is he an unrepentant liar or is he just stupid? I honestly don't know for sure, but I'm going to give him the benefit of doubt that it's the latter. For now anyway.

Offline Jack Nessan

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Re: Dr. Baden Refuted the Single-Bullet Theory
« Reply #26 on: Today at 01:55:53 AM »
The replies from WC defenders amount to this position:

"Never mind that no bullet fired from the sixth-floor window could have hit JFK's back at an upward angle and then passed through his neck at an upward angle. Never mind that this means no bullet from the sixth-floor window could have exited JFK's throat at a downward angle, much less at a 25-degree downward angle. Never mind that we therefore cannot get a bullet from JFK's throat to Connally's back in the first place, unless we're willing to rule out the sixth-floor window as the source of the shot. Just never mind these facts.

"We will continue to excuse ourselves from credibly dealing with these facts until you provide us with a non-SBT trajectory through Connally -- and the trajectory has to be one that we are willing to accept, but of course we will never accept any such trajectory because that would raise further doubt about the SBT.

"Moreover, we will continue to refuse to acknowledge the self-evident implications of the hard physical evidence of JFK's clothing, specifically, the fact that JFK's tie, including the tie knot, had no bullet hole through it, and that the nick on the tie knot was not on the edge of the knot but was visibly inward from the edge, because acknowledging the import of these facts would mean admitting that no bullet exited the throat. In the case of the SBT, we judge fact by theory, not the other way around."


We should keep in mind that the HSCA FPP's SBT does not merely require that JFK's head was tilted substantially forward but that his upper torso was tilted substantially forward as well, as Dr. Baden was nice enough to demonstrate.

As many here know, I am by no means the first researcher to note that the HSCA FPP's SBT is actually fatal to the SBT because no photo or footage shows JFK leaning so far forward during the SBT's timeframe. By acknowledging that the WC placed the back wound at least 2.5 inches too high and that the bullet hit and tunneled at an upward angle, the FPP actually destroyed the SBT. Dr. Wecht repeatedly made this point in his presentations on the SBT.

As I documented in a previous reply, both the NOVA and the Dale Myers SBT trajectory animations have JFK's upper torso virtually upright and have his head either upright (NOVA) or tilted only slightly forward (Myers), and they have the bullet traveling a downward path from the back wound to the throat wound.

And, of course, Lattimer's bogus SBT diagrams, which continue to be used by many WC apologists to this very day, show JFK sitting upright with his head upright, place the back wound visibly above the throat wound, show the bullet traveling downward through the neck, and show the bullet exiting the neck at a downward angle of at least 20 degrees.

No WC apologist has yet produced an SBT trajectory illustration that takes into account the forensic facts pointed out by the HSCA FPP regarding the back wound's upward trajectory, the upward trajectory through the neck, and the pronounced forward lean required to make that trajectory align with the sixth-floor window.

Indeed, even the NASA expert whom the HSCA hired to do their headshot and SBT trajectory analyses, Dr. Thomas Canning, simply ignored the HSCA FPP's diagram showing JFK's forward lean (7 HSCA 100, Figure 12) and instead showed JFK sitting virtually upright with his head virtually upright as well (2 HSCA 177, JFK Exhibit F-142). Incredibly, Canning also impossibly showed the back wound above the throat wound and showed the bullet exiting at a point visibly below JFK's throat wound.

Thank you Sherlock for helping with seeing the light. The whole investigation with certain known facts is the wrong way to view the assassination. Make up your own facts, that is way better. Claim people stated things that they didn't. The shooter was not on the sixth floor 8 feet above Williams, Norman, and Jarmin. He was really down on the street about level with the trunk of the car. Who would have thunk it. Who cares about JFK's and JBC's wounds and the bullet trajectory through their bodies. Obviously the doctors had no idea what they were doing. Greer should have driven the car down the road to a pet clinic and JFK and JBC would have gotten better medical care by people who knew all about gunshot wounds. I am sorry, I had this all wrong about you, I need to add the word savant to the word idiot.

Thanks Michael for all you do. Your knowledge of the assassination is unsurpassed. We all owe you a deep debt of gratitude. It is a debt that can never be repaid.
« Last Edit: Today at 02:02:29 AM by Jack Nessan »