The JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate > JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate

Acoustic Evidence

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Mitch Todd:

--- Quote from: Michael T. Griffith on September 17, 2026, 04:00:30 PM ---No, he does not. By the time Bowers talked with Mark Lane, he was afraid to say anything that would expressly place a gunman on the grassy knoll. Were both of his friends who spoke on the record lying when they disclosed that Bowers did not tell the WC everything he saw? Was Bowers' wife lying when she said her husband was warned not to talk?

And you guys do nothing but present labored, dubious denials when it comes to the clear implication of Bowers' testimony about the three cars that did an obvious recon of the area behind the knoll in the 20-30 minutes leading up to the assassination. The cars clearly weren't looking for a parking space. Bowers himself noted that the cars appeared to be "probing" the area, and that the second car's driver appeared to be talking into a microphone. But, oh, nah, according to you, this was just some strange, cosmic coincidence that just "must" have an innocent explanation, even though you can't provide one that makes any sense.

As for the number of shots that Bowers said he heard, it is rather lame to cite this as some kind of concrete proof that only three shots were fired. Some witnesses said they heard four or more shots. A number of witnesses said they only heard two shots. A few witnesses said they only heard one shot. The scientific acoustical evidence proves that at least four shots were fired, and the Zapruder film shows six reactions to gunfire.

And I notice you said nothing about Bowers' statement that two of the shots came in very rapid succession, too quickly to have been fired by the same person if using a bolt-action rifle. In fact, a number of witnesses said the thing, that two of the shots came right on top of each other, as "bang, bang," with virtually no break in between. But, yeah, never mind that, right?

You are correct. I was thinking of Charles Brehm.

--- End quote ---
MG: No, he does not.

No, it's exactly what he says. Did you not read the interview transcript?


MG: By the time Bowers talked with Mark Lane, he was afraid to say anything that would expressly place a gunman on the grassy knoll. Were both of his friends who spoke on the record lying when they disclosed that Bowers did not tell the WC everything he saw? Was Bowers' wife lying when she said her husband was warned not to talk?

You did read Six Seconds in Dallas and Last Second in Dallas, specifically where Thompson discusses Bowers and relates what Bowers told him, right? Also, the source for Bowers' widow is Penn Jones, who is worth less than a hill of beans as a source. 


MG: And you guys do nothing but present labored, dubious denials when it comes to the clear implication of Bowers' testimony about the three cars that did an obvious recon of the area behind the knoll in the 20-30 minutes leading up to the assassination.

He saw three cars cruising around a parking lot. Like people do when they are looking for a place to park for an impending event about to occur nearby. The sort of thing that people see every day, everywhere. There is no mystery here, no matter what you and your fellow CTs so desperately want to believe.


MG: The scientific acoustical evidence proves that at least four shots were fired

The "acoustic evidence" is crap, based on a novel and unproven procedure. With the changes that were made by the courts in the 1990s, it probably wouldn't be admissible in a trial today.


the Zapruder film shows six reactions to gunfire.

And we're back to that happy little game where every movement someone in the limo makes is "a reaction" and then "a reaction to a gunshot."

Michael T. Griffith:

--- Quote ---Galbraith: Bowers said he didn't see anyone behind the fence at the time of the shooting.
--- End quote ---

No, he said he didn't see the two men behind the fence during the shooting. You guys brush them aside, but two of Bowers' friends said he didn't publicly reveal everything he saw. And, naturally, you dismiss journalist Penn Jones' report that Bowers' wife told him on the record that her husband was told not to talk.


--- Quote ---Mitch Todd: He saw three cars cruising around a parking lot. Like people do when they are looking for a place to park for an impending event about to occur nearby. The sort of thing that people see every day, everywhere. There is no mystery here, no matter what you and your fellow CTs so desperately want to believe.
--- End quote ---

LOL! Bowers certainly didn't think they were "looking for a place to park." They certainly didn't act like they were just "looking for place to park."

Have you actually read Bowers' account? Have you ever been in that parking lot? I have. There would have been no need to spend several minutes "probing," as Bowers put it, if they were merely looking for a parking spot. That lot is quite small. They could have spotted a parking place in a matter of seconds.

And never mind that the area had been sealed off since 11:00 and that there had been virtually no movement in the area since then, which is why the three cars' strange behavior caught Bowers' attention, right?


--- Quote ---Mitch Todd: The "acoustic evidence" is crap, based on a novel and unproven procedure.
--- End quote ---

Oh, yeah, sure it is. You don't even know what you're talking about, and I can tell you've read next to nothing on the subject. The BBN acoustical scientists used the same methods and scientific principles in analyzing the DPD dictabelt that they used when they analyzed the audio recording of the 1970 Kent State shooting.


--- Quote ---Mitch Todd:With the changes that were made by the courts in the 1990s, it probably wouldn't be admissible in a trial today.
--- End quote ---

Nonsense. The military uses the same scientific principles and methodology to acoustically locate gunfire today that the HSCA's acoustical scientists used. In fact, Dr. Barger, as I've pointed out, developed patented new technology for the military and police forces to acoustically locate gunfire. 

BTW, the new research done by BBN scientists, including Dr. Barger, from 2015-2018 proves that the dictabelt's impulse patterns were recorded in Dealey Plaza during the assassination and debunks the NRC/NAS's claim that the Decker "hold everything" transmission is crosstalk.

I notice you haven't laid a finger on any of the evidence that the HSCA's acoustical scientists documented in support of their findings (the timing-movement correlations, the sonar analysis that verified the grassy knoll shot, the windshield-distortion correlations, and the presence of N-waves, muzzle blasts, and muzzle-blast echoes in the correct order and interval and only when the microphone was in position to record them).   


--- Quote ---Mitch Todd:And we're back to that happy little game where every movement someone in the limo makes is "a reaction" and then "a reaction to a gunshot."
--- End quote ---

You know that's not what I'm talking about. I'll let readers decide if this is a case of "every movement" being "a reaction to a gunshot" when they read my article "Reactions to Six Shots in the Zapruder Film."

I think one of the first things people will notice is that you ignore the fact that five of the reactions are supported by the recognized science of blur analysis (I only mention four blur events in the article because I don't mention that a marked blur episode occurs around the time of the Z313 headshot, since no one questions that Z313-317 shows a reaction to a shot).


--- Quote ---MG: You surely know this is misleading. Decker ordered his officers to seal off the area of the railroad yard behind the knoll and the triple underpass. Curry ordered his officers to check the area of the triple underpass and said to get a man on top of the underpass to see what happened there. Anyone who looks at a map of Dealey Plaza and understands English can see that Decker and Curry sent their men to essentially the same area.

Corbett: One deployed his men to the railroad yard and one to the overpass.
--- End quote ---

Wow, you just can't admit anything, can you? What area do you suppose Curry wanted to "see what happened there" by ordering to "get a man on top of that triple underpass"? What area do you think Curry wanted the officer to look at from the triple underpass to "see what happened there"? Huh? The freeway?! The TSBD?! Huh? The obvious answer to anyone with a functioning brain and some integrity is that Curry believed shots came from the area behind the grassy knoll and that he ordered that an officer get on top of the underpass to "see what happened there."

And that's the same area, the rail yard behind the knoll, that Sheriff Decker ordered to be sealed off "to determine just what and where it happened down there."


--- Quote ---Corbett: Both [Curry and Decker] were guessing.
--- End quote ---

LOL! They were just "guessing"?! They ordered men deployed to check out the same area because they were just "guessing"?! Of course this is just pure silliness. A police chief and a sheriff are not going to deploy their men after shots have been fired at a presidential motorcade in which they themselves were riding based on just a guess. You'll never admit it, but it's obvious that Curry and Decker deployed their men to check out the same general area because they clearly believed that gunfire had come from that area. 

John Corbett:

--- Quote from: Michael T. Griffith on September 18, 2026, 03:42:15 PM ---Wow, you just can't admit anything, can you? What area do you suppose Curry wanted to "see what happened there" by ordering to "get a man on top of that triple underpass"? What area do you think Curry wanted the officer to look at from the triple underpass to "see what happened there"? Huh? The freeway?! The TSBD?! Huh? The obvious answer to anyone with a functioning brain and some integrity is that Curry believed shots came from the area behind the grassy knoll and that he ordered that an officer get on top of the underpass to "see what happened there."

And that's the same area, the rail yard behind the knoll, that Sheriff Decker ordered to be sealed off "to determine just what and where it happened down there."

LOL! They were just "guessing"?! They ordered men deployed to check out the same area because they were just "guessing"?! Of course this is just pure silliness. A police chief and a sheriff are not going to deploy their men after shots have been fired at a presidential motorcade in which they themselves were riding based on just a guess. You'll never admit it, but it's obvious that Curry and Decker deployed their men to check out the same general area because they clearly believed that gunfire had come from that area.

--- End quote ---

One tactic of the CTs I've seen over the years on multiple forums is that when they want to declare something as a fact without evidence to support it, they claim it is "obvious".

As is your custom, you don't quote either Curry or Decker but instead give us your interpretation of what they actually said. Even your interpretation doesn't indicate Curry and Decker deployed their men to the same area. The underpass and the railroad yard are not the same place. Curry and Decker had nothing but sound to base their judgement of the where the shots came from and sound is a poor indicator of that, so yes Curry and Decker were guessing. They were educated guesses based on their impression of where they thought the sounds came from, but they were still guesses. None of their men found any indication of a shooter in either location.

Steve M. Galbraith:

--- Quote from: John Corbett on September 18, 2026, 04:32:48 PM ---One tactic of the CTs I've seen over the years on multiple forums is that when they want to declare something as a fact without evidence to support it, they claim it is "obvious".

As is your custom, you don't quote either Curry or Decker but instead give us your interpretation of what they actually said. Even your interpretation doesn't indicate Curry and Decker deployed their men to the same area. The underpass and the railroad yard are not the same place. Curry and Decker had nothing but sound to base their judgement of the where the shots came from and sound is a poor indicator of that, so yes Curry and Decker were guessing. They were educated guesses based on their impression of where they thought the sounds came from, but they were still guesses. None of their men found any indication of a shooter in either location.

--- End quote ---
Mr. Griffith is a hopeless cause. He simply makes things up, is caught doing so, then repeats the original claim in a different manner. He doesn't link to primary sources; he takes sources and then re-interprets what he thinks they say. It's endless. His entire conspiracy explanation is a mish mash of contradictory evidence and claims, of sources who are odds with one another, with evidence that actually counters his conspiracy theory.

Curry specifically testified that he didn't know where the reports/shots came from.

Mr. CURRY - I didn't do that, sir. That was one of my inspectors, I believe that gave that order. I was riding in the Presidential parade and approximately a hundred feet, I guess, ahead of the President's car, and when we heard this first report, I couldn't tell exactly where it was coming from.
Representative FORD - What report are you talking about now?
Mr. CURRY - A sharp report as a firecracker or as it was it was the report of this rifle.
We were just approaching an underpass, and there were some people around on each side of the underpass, up in the railroad yards, and I thought at first that perhaps this was a railroad torpedo, it was a sharp crack.
Mr. CURRY - I said what was that, was that a firecracker, or someone said this, I don't recall whether it was me or someone else, and from the report I couldn't tell whether it was coming from the railroad yard or whether it was coming from behind but I said over the radio, I said, "Get someone up in the railroad yard and check."
And then about this time, I believe it was motorcycle Officer Chaney rode up beside of me and looking back in the rear view mirror I could see some commotion in the President's car and after this there had been two more reports, but these other two reports I could tell were coming behind instead of from the railroad yards.
Mr. RANKIN - What do you mean by reports?
Mr. CURRY - Sharp reports as a rifle or a firecracker, and looking in the rear view mirror then I could see some commotion in President Kennedy's car.
Mr. RANKIN - You could distinctly hear and tell that the two later reports were from behind?
Mr. CURRY - Behind.
Mr. RANKIN - Rather than front?
Mr. CURRY - That is right.
Mr. RANKIN - You weren't sure whether the first one was from behind or in front?
Mr. CURRY - I couldn't tell because perhaps of the echo or the----

Curry's full testimony is here: https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/curry1.htm

John Corbett:

--- Quote from: Steve M. Galbraith on September 18, 2026, 05:01:21 PM ---Curry specifically testified that he didn't know where the reports/shots came from.

Mr. CURRY - I didn't do that, sir. That was one of my inspectors, I believe that gave that order. I was riding in the Presidential parade and approximately a hundred feet, I guess, ahead of the President's car, and when we heard this first report, I couldn't tell exactly where it was coming from.
Representative FORD - What report are you talking about now?
Mr. CURRY - A sharp report as a firecracker or as it was it was the report of this rifle.
We were just approaching an underpass, and there were some people around on each side of the underpass, up in the railroad yards, and I thought at first that perhaps this was a railroad torpedo, it was a sharp crack.
Mr. CURRY - I said what was that, was that a firecracker, or someone said this, I don't recall whether it was me or someone else, and from the report I couldn't tell whether it was coming from the railroad yard or whether it was coming from behind but I said over the radio, I said, "Get someone up in the railroad yard and check."
And then about this time, I believe it was motorcycle Officer Chaney rode up beside of me and looking back in the rear view mirror I could see some commotion in the President's car and after this there had been two more reports, but these other two reports I could tell were coming behind instead of from the railroad yards.
Mr. RANKIN - What do you mean by reports?
Mr. CURRY - Sharp reports as a rifle or a firecracker, and looking in the rear view mirror then I could see some commotion in President Kennedy's car.
Mr. RANKIN - You could distinctly hear and tell that the two later reports were from behind?
Mr. CURRY - Behind.
Mr. RANKIN - Rather than front?
Mr. CURRY - That is right.
Mr. RANKIN - You weren't sure whether the first one was from behind or in front?
Mr. CURRY - I couldn't tell because perhaps of the echo or the----

Curry's full testimony is here: https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/curry1.htm

--- End quote ---

Isn't it amazing how often the official records differ sharply from what MTG claims?

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