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Author Topic: Lone Nutters Abuse Of The Term "Conspiracy Theory"  (Read 340 times)

Online Tim Nickerson

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Re: Lone Nutters Abuse Of The Term "Conspiracy Theory"
« Reply #14 on: Today at 11:07:59 AM »

Harris's videos impressed me 18 years ago...Especially one subject I can't remember now...Maybe the Magic Bullet...Maybe Connally's bullet that dropped on the floor and the nurse picked up...Yeah, I think that was it...The tracing of that bullet that was taken to evidence and disappeared...A whole bullet...

Harris' claimed that nurse Audrey Bell didn't give the Connally fragments to Texas Patrolman Bobby M. Nolan but to someone else. He claimed that Nolan received a whole bullet from someone.

Online Tim Nickerson

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Re: Lone Nutters Abuse Of The Term "Conspiracy Theory"
« Reply #15 on: Today at 11:12:22 AM »
BD--

I plan a post on the Connally slug, and the Walker slug in the future.

In both case, the official evidence and the WC narrative stretches credulity.

Every hospital employee knows that all gunshots must be reported to police, and all evidence, such as bullets, retained. A serious matter.

Yet somehow a bullet that struck the Governor of the State of Texas (and that made a clean small, round hole in his pant leg upon entry, indication quite a bit of force) ends up...where? On the floor outside of the Trauma Room 2?

Except O.P. Wright, a former police chief and then hospital administrator, said the bullet he received from Tomlinson was a pointy-head bullet?

There are equally confounding circumstances regarding the Walker bullet.

The WC and FBI were pursuing the LNT narrative, per instructions of LBJ, who did not want to nuke it out with Moscow.

The bullet that struck Connally didn't end up on the floor outside of the Trauma Room 2. It was found on the stretcher that Connally had been on.

On June 12, 1964, O.P. Wright told agent Bardwell Odum that CE-399 appeared to be the same bullet that he had handled on Nov 22, 1963.

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Lone Nutters Abuse Of The Term "Conspiracy Theory"
« Reply #16 on: Today at 11:41:01 AM »
The bullet that struck Connally didn't end up on the floor outside of the Trauma Room 2. It was found on the stretcher that Connally had been on.

On June 12, 1964, O.P. Wright told agent Bardwell Odum that CE-399 appeared to be the same bullet that he had handled on Nov 22, 1963.

The bullet that struck Connally didn't end up on the floor outside of the Trauma Room 2. It was found on the stretcher that Connally had been on.

That's an assumption. Nobody could confirm with certainty that the stretcher the bullet was on, was used by Connally.

On June 12, 1964, O.P. Wright told agent Bardwell Odum that CE-399 appeared to be the same bullet that he had handled on Nov 22, 1963.

No he didn't. According to the Airtel of SAC Dallas neither Tomlinson or Wright could identify the bullet.

Even worse, Odum, in a conversation with Gary Aguilar, in 2002, denied ever having or showing CE 399 to anybody.

Online Tim Nickerson

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Re: Lone Nutters Abuse Of The Term "Conspiracy Theory"
« Reply #17 on: Today at 12:07:02 PM »

That's an assumption. Nobody could confirm with certainty that the stretcher the bullet was on, was used by Connally.

Tomlinson said it was on the stretcher that he had pulled off the elevator. That was the stretcher that Connally had been on.

Quote
No he didn't. According to the Airtel of SAC Dallas neither Tomlinson or Wright could identify the bullet.

Yes he did. While he was unable to positively identify it as the bullet he handled, he said that it appeared to be the same one.

https://www.maryferrell.org/xdoc/11653#relPageId=3
 
Quote
Even worse, Odum, in a conversation with Gary Aguilar, in 2002, denied ever having or showing CE 399 to anybody.

In 2003, Josiah Thompson said that Odum called him on the phone and essentially deferred to the FBI document. Meaning that he did indeed show CE-399 to Tomlinson and Wright on June 12, 1964. He remembered being in Wright's office not long after the assassination but couldn't remember why. When Odum originally told Aguilar and Thompson that he never handled the bullet he also told them that if he had there would be an FD-302 that he reported it in. He was wrong. The FBI agents never wrote any FD-302s for the evidence interviews that they did with witnesses in June of 64.

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Lone Nutters Abuse Of The Term "Conspiracy Theory"
« Reply #18 on: Today at 01:18:43 PM »
Tomlinson said it was on the stretcher that he had pulled off the elevator. That was the stretcher that Connally had been on.

Yes he did. While he was unable to positively identify it as the bullet he handled, he said that it appeared to be the same one.

https://www.maryferrell.org/xdoc/11653#relPageId=3
 
In 2003, Josiah Thompson said that Odum called him on the phone and essentially deferred to the FBI document. Meaning that he did indeed show CE-399 to Tomlinson and Wright on June 12, 1964. He remembered being in Wright's office not long after the assassination but couldn't remember why. When Odum originally told Aguilar and Thompson that he never handled the bullet he also told them that if he had there would be an FD-302 that he reported it in. He was wrong. The FBI agents never wrote any FD-302s for the evidence interviews that they did with witnesses in June of 64.

Tomlinson said it was on the stretcher that he had pulled off the elevator.

True, but, for what it's worth, he told Marcus in 1966 that it was his best recollection, so perhaps he wasn't 100% sure after all.

That was the stretcher that Connally had been on.

That's another assumption. SA Richard Johnsen, who carried the bullet he received from Wright to Washington told Secret Service Chief James Rowley that the bullet was "on one of the stretchers". Johnsen wrote the same information on a White House memo that was attached to the envelope which contained the bullet.

Yes he did. While he was unable to positively identify it as the bullet he handled, he said that it appeared to be the same one.

I figured you would refer to CE 2011. This document, conveniently, has no underlying documents, no known author and it does not match the information provided by the Airtel of SAC Dallas Shanklin. The Airtel is the only known document regarding this matter and there is no other, as far as I know, which actually confirms the added text in CE 2011.
CE 2011 also doesn't support your claim because it only states that Tomlinson stated that the bullet appears to be the one he found. Wright said no such thing.

In 2003, Josiah Thompson said that Odum called him on the phone and essentially deferred to the FBI document.

I am not aware of that call to Thompson by Odum.

Meaning that he did indeed show CE-399 to Tomlinson and Wright on June 12, 1964.

No it doesn't mean that. That's only your assumption. Far more likely is that Odum, on second thought, after so many years, wasn't sure that what he had told Aguilar was 100% correct and to avoid any confusion he simply deferred to the FBI's documents to be on the safe side. He of course trusted the FBI! It is possible to not remember one witness interview of the many he must have conducted during his career. However, how likely is it that you don't remember holding one of the bullets that allegedly killed the President? Some things you never forget!

He remembered being in Wright's office not long after the assassination but couldn't remember why.

When and where did Odum say that? And what exactly is "not long after the assassination"?

When Odum originally told Aguilar and Thompson that he never handled the bullet he also told them that if he had there would be an FD-302 that he reported it in. He was wrong. The FBI agents never wrote any FD-302s for the evidence interviews that they did with witnesses in June of 64.

The FBI is and was just about as bureaucratic as it gets. For them not to produce FD-302 about their investigation (as the WC's request) into the chain of custody of several pieces of evidence, is not only not likely, it's unbelievable. Are we really to believe that a 40 page document (which CE 2011 is) was written without underlying FD-302's?

Having said that, with only Shanklin's Airtel and no FD 302, how did the claim that Tomlinson stated that the bullet appears to be the one he found get in to CE 2011?
« Last Edit: Today at 01:51:28 PM by Martin Weidmann »

Online John Corbett

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Re: Lone Nutters Abuse Of The Term "Conspiracy Theory"
« Reply #19 on: Today at 01:58:19 PM »

Harris's videos impressed me 18 years ago...Especially one subject I can't remember now...Maybe the Magic Bullet...Maybe Connally's bullet that dropped on the floor and the nurse picked up...Yeah, I think that was it...The tracing of that bullet that was taken to evidence and disappeared...A whole bullet...

If you were a follower of Bob Harris, you couldn't have made a worse choice.

Online Tim Nickerson

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Re: Lone Nutters Abuse Of The Term "Conspiracy Theory"
« Reply #20 on: Today at 02:01:01 PM »
Tomlinson said it was on the stretcher that he had pulled off the elevator.

True, but, for what it's worth, he told Marcus in 1966 that it was his best recollection, so perhaps he wasn't 100% sure after all.

That was the stretcher that Connally had been on.

That's another assumption. SA Richard Johnsen, who carried the bullet he received from Wright to Washington told Secret Service Chief James Rowley that the bullet was "on one of the stretchers". Johnsen wrote the same information on a White House memo that was attached to the envelope which contained the bullet.

Yes he did. While he was unable to positively identify it as the bullet he handled, he said that it appeared to be the same one.

I figured you would refer to CE 2011. This document, conveniently, has no underlying documents, no known author and it does not match the information provided by the Airtel of SAC Dallas Shanklin. The Airtel is the only known document regarding this matter and there is no other, as far as I know, which actually confirms the added text in CE 2011.
CE 2011 also doesn't support your claim because it only states that Tomlinson stated that the bullet appears to be the one he found. Wright said no such thing.

In 2003, Josiah Thompson said that Odum called him on the phone and essentially deferred to the FBI document.

I am not aware of that call to Thompson by Odum.

Meaning that he did indeed show CE-399 to Tomlinson and Wright on June 12, 1964.

No it doesn't mean that. That's only your assumption. Far more likely is that Odum, on second thought, after so many years, wasn't sure that what he had told Aguilar was 100% correct and to avoid any confusion he simply deferred to the FBI's documents to be on the safe side. He of course trusted the FBI! It is possible to not remember one witness interview of the many he must have conducted during his career. However, how likely is it that you don't remember holding one of the bullets that allegedly killed the President? Some things you never forget!

He remembered being in Wright's office not long after the assassination but couldn't remember why.

When and where did Odum say that? And what exactly is "not long after the assassination"?

When Odum originally told Aguilar and Thompson that he never handled the bullet he also told them that if he had there would be an FD-302 that he reported it in. He was wrong. The FBI agents never wrote any FD-302s for the evidence interviews that they did with witnesses in June of 64.

The FBI is and was just about as bureaucratic as it gets. For them not to produce FD-302 about their investigation (as the WC's request) into the chain of custody of several pieces of evidence, is not only not likely, it's unbelievable. Are we really to believe that a 40 page document (which CE 2011 is) was written without underlying FD-302's?

Having said that, with only Shanklin's Airtel and no FD 302, how did the claim that Tomlinson stated that the bullet appears to be the one he found get in to CE 2011?

I've addressed all of that with you too many times to count. I even posted the video of Thompson talking about Odum phoning him for you several times.  I'm not interested in playing Groundhog day with you.