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Author Topic: How Do LNers Deal With Givens?  (Read 4652 times)

Offline Zeon Mason

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Re: How Do LNers Deal With Givens?
« Reply #77 on: September 18, 2026, 09:01:51 PM »
Question about Those 7 persons in the experiment firing an MC rifle and then getting a negative result on the paraffin test: Did they reenact the  WC theory proposed  post shooting trek of Oswald all the way to theater and allow a bathroom washing the face before the paraffin test was taken?


Online John Corbett

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Re: How Do LNers Deal With Givens?
« Reply #78 on: September 18, 2026, 09:19:55 PM »
Question about Those 7 persons in the experiment firing an MC rifle and then getting a negative result on the paraffin test: Did they reenact the  WC theory proposed  post shooting trek of Oswald all the way to theater and allow a bathroom washing the face before the paraffin test was taken?

Does it matter? If the people who took the test didn't wash their faces after firing the shot and still tested negative, why would it matter if Oswald washed his face? If those people tested negative, it is established that a person could fire the Carcano rifle and still test negative which means Oswald's negative paraffin test doesn't prove he hadn't fired the rifle.

Online Dan O'meara

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Re: How Do LNers Deal With Givens?
« Reply #79 on: Yesterday at 12:59:45 AM »
You are just being silly........AGAIN!

What difference does it make when Oswald made these preparations. We know he made the preparations which amounted to assembling the rifle and stacking a few boxes for a rifle rest and a seat. If I had to guess, i would say he probably didn't assemble the rifle until the other employees had left for lunch. Why risk exposing the rifle before then? Stacking the boxes would take about a minute, tops. Bonnie Ray Williams returning to the 6th floor could have been problematic had he remained there but since he didn't, that left Oswald with ample time to make final preparations. If you want to create imaginary problems for Oswald, those same problems would also apply to anyone else you want to imagine could have done the shooting, but that's academic. All the hard evidence tells us the shooter was Oswald.

Spoken like a true Nutter - we know Oswald made the preparations because Oswald did it therefore he made the preparations because he did it therefore...

Let's say a couple of minutes to go back and forth with the Rolling Reader boxes from a few aisles away, a couple of minutes to fetch his rifle from wherever it was stashed and 6 minutes to assemble his rifle. Let's say 10 minutes in total to make his preparations...do you know what...let's go crazy and just say 6 minutes to assemble his rifle.
When did he do that?

"If I had to guess, i would say he probably didn't assemble the rifle until the other employees had left for lunch. Why risk exposing the rifle before then?"

You do have to guess because the WC didn't spoon feed you this particular piece of information, which leaves you having to use your own brain to work something out by yourself, which leaves you in real difficulties.
And it's little wonder that you happen to suspect the same narrative the WC report is trying to suggest - at lunchtime everyone from the upper floors goes downstairs except for Oswald, who has business to take care of. Luckily Givens just happened to go back up to the 6th floor where he saw Oswald near the southeast corner and when he offered Oswald a ride downstairs he refused (because he had some preparing to do). He had some boxes to move, a disassembled rifle to fetch which he was then going to have to assemble. As luck would have it, he got all this done before Bonnie Ray Williams arrived on the 6th floor to have his lunch and watch the parade go by.
But he had to be quick because Bonnie Ray went down to the first floor, washed up, fetched his lunch, bought a bottle of Dr Pepper and made his way back up to the 6th floor. He was probably up on the 6th floor before 12 noon, maybe 11:55am.
So Oswald hid quiet as a mouse while Williams had his lunch a few yards away.

Except Oswald didn't go up to the 6th floor after everyone broke for lunch. This was a lie the WC put in the mouth of Givens
Oswald went down to the first floor, just as he told everyone involved in the elevator race he intended to do.
And he talked with Eddie Piper at 12 noon on the first floor, at the same time Bonnie Ray Williams was taking up his position on the 6th floor.

So, when did Oswald have time for all these preparations?







« Last Edit: Yesterday at 01:04:40 AM by Dan O'meara »

Online John Corbett

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Re: How Do LNers Deal With Givens?
« Reply #80 on: Yesterday at 02:00:30 AM »
You do have to guess because the WC didn't spoon feed you this particular piece of information, which leaves you having to use your own brain to work something out by yourself, which leaves you in real difficulties.

This is the kind of asinine comment we have come to expect from you. Of course we have to guess when Oswald assembled the rifle because nobody would know that except Oswald. Do you need every last freaking thing proven to you? You really are moron. Sorry. Just being honest.

Offline Tim Nickerson

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Re: How Do LNers Deal With Givens?
« Reply #81 on: Yesterday at 02:18:56 AM »
You do have to guess because the WC didn't spoon feed you this particular piece of information, which leaves you having to use your own brain to work something out by yourself, which leaves you in real difficulties.

OH Noes! Well that's it. You finally got us LNs cornered.  ::)

Offline Zeon Mason

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Re: How Do LNers Deal With Givens?
« Reply #82 on: Yesterday at 05:40:05 PM »
7th floor would have been a good  place  to assemble the rifle but Oswald would have to bring the package from the 1st floor annex part of loading dock where he hid it that morning after entering about  30 secs ahead of  BW Frazier.

So Frazier saw Oswald  carrying a package go thru the 1st door that’s part of the annexed bldg that’s attached to the TSBD and then Oswald had 30 seconds to place the package somewhere (an open
Storage barrel perhaps ) unseen by Frazier doing so.  Then when Oswald  opened the back door of TSBD, Dougherty saw nothing in Oswalds hands.

So anytime from 8:30 to 11:30, Oswald could possibly have gone into the annexed garage bldg probably using the rolled up door beside the 1st floor staircase , retrieved the package and he either took it up to 7 th floor using the stairs or by using one of the freight elevators.

Unfortunately I dont think There were any witnesses that have WC testimony that support this scenario and given that Dorothy Garner on the 4th floor probably did NOT wait 60 secs post shots to follow behind Adams and Stiles and given BW  Fraziers 24 in estimate of the length of the bag, this hypothetical scenario is basically irrelevant.

I just threw it out there as an LN option since most LNs are convinced the bag probably contained the disassembled MC rifle.


Offline Zeon Mason

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Re: How Do LNers Deal With Givens?
« Reply #83 on: Yesterday at 05:52:43 PM »
Does it matter? If the people who took the test didn't wash their faces after firing the shot and still tested negative, why would it matter if Oswald washed his face? If those people tested negative, it is established that a person could fire the Carcano rifle and still test negative which means Oswald's negative paraffin test doesn't prove he hadn't fired the rifle.

 But those 7 people tested positive , so That kind of makes Oswald’s negative result an anomaly . So I’m trying to suggest the possibility Oswald having washed his face at the theater 65 minutes after the shooting and how probable the trace amount of nitrates could be removed from his face by washing with water and soap. If it is improbable , then the anomaly persists.

« Last Edit: Yesterday at 05:58:25 PM by Zeon Mason »