The JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate > JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate
How Do LNers Deal With Givens?
Tim Nickerson:
--- Quote from: Dan O'meara on September 08, 2026, 01:20:36 AM ---Why do you accept that Givens went back up to the 6th floor?
Don't you think his observation of the prime suspect for the assassination of the President at the location from where the shots were taken would have come to light during his extensive questioning by Fritz and the FBI?
Do you think this observation is trivial and not really worth mentioning?
--- End quote ---
Why wouldn't I accept it? Givens said that he saw Oswald on the 6th floor at about 11:55 AM. So what?
Zeon Mason:
Well the east elevator was on the ground floor when James Jarman and Harold Norman returned into TSBD on the 1st floor from the rear loading dock door at approximately 12:23.
If Givens story is fabricated, then Oswald could be the last one who used the east elevator at 12:00.
And where was Dougherty at this time between 11:45 and 12:30. Was not he supposedly on the 5th floor the whole time. He did not see Oswald at all? He didn’t see or hear Givens going up on the east elevator passing by the 5th floor ? He did not see or hear Williams west elevator go past the 5th floor. He did not hear or see Harold Norman and James Jarman getting off the east elevator onto the 5th floor at 12:23? He did not hear or see Bonnie Ray Williams bring the west elevator down from 6th floor to 5th floor about 12:24, did not see BRW exit the elevator and walk across the floor to join Norman and Jarman at their windows?
Dougherty on the 5th floor ( and briefly on the 6th floor ) during the period from 11:45 till 12:30
missed all this activity of going and coming of people, he missed seeing/ hearing Oswald shout to send the elevator back up, missed seeing the elevator race, missed hearing Truly shout up for the elevator and although Dougherty was on the same 5th floor with Norman, he heard only ONE loud noise when the shooting began.
It’s seems improbable. Dougherty must have been hiding somewhere ( like the 7th floor ? ) and was completely asleep to have missed so much.
Tim Nickerson:
--- Quote from: Michael T. Griffith on September 07, 2026, 12:00:46 PM ---
A bullet entering at C7 would have struck barely level with or slightly below the throat wound. A bullet entering at T1 would have struck at least 1/3 of an inch below the throat wound,
--- End quote ---
John Corbett:
--- Quote from: Dan O'meara on September 08, 2026, 01:16:40 AM ---Oswald was trying to get down to the first floor while the elevator race was on.
Both elevators were now on the first floor.
Givens never went back up to the 6th floor.
Williams took a few minutes to clean up, collect his lunch and buy a bottle of Dr. Pepper before returning to the 6th floor. He could have been on the 6th floor as early as 11:55am.
Oswald was seen on the first floor by Piper around 12 noon which means he did make his way down from the 5th floor. He either called up an elevator and rode it down or, if the gate had not been put down, he had to get down using the stairs.
The point is that the Givens story about going back up to the 6th and seeing Oswald near the southeast corner was a total fabrication.
We know from the testimonies of Lovelady, Williams and Arce that Oswald wanted to get down to the first floor.
We know from the testimony of Piper that he did make it down to the first floor.,
But all this testimony was deliberately omitted in favour of the fake Givens story which gave the impression that Oswald was last seen on the 6th floor near the location from which the shooting had taken place when, in fact, he was last seen on the first floor around 12 noon.
--- End quote ---
The above claims demonstrate why nobody should ever take anything you write serious. I doubt anybody does.
Steve M. Galbraith:
Even worse (somehow) is the sketch artist who drew the above (and below) awful pictures for the Warren Commission also didn't see the autopsy photos. He was instructed by Humes on the drawings. And Humes too didn't have access to the photos. So he had to go from memory and his notes.
Earl Warren's order to not allow the photos and x-rays to be examined gets more absurd each time I think about it.
From Epstein's book "Inquest": "Commander James J. Humes, the Navy pathologist who had conducted the autopsy and signed the Commission’s autopsy report, testified that the conclusion that the bullet had exited was based mainly on the fact that “the wound in the anterior portion of the neck [was] physically lower than the point of entrance posteriorly.”31 Humes supported his assertion with two schematic drawings of the President—profile and back—which show the purported point of entry in the back of the neck (Commission Exhibit 385, on the next page, is one of these drawings). Although the artist who made these drawings was not familiar with the autopsy itself or photographs of it—he had made the drawings solely on the basis of the verbal instructions of Commander Humes32—these schematic drawings were offered as evidence in lieu of the photographs and X-rays of the autopsy, which were “unavailable.”33
Given what Ford was told and shown I think it's entirely defensible that he located the wound in the neck. That's where he was told it was.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version