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Author Topic: Mary Woodward said there were 3 shots and the 1st shot missed everything  (Read 1974 times)

Online Tom Graves

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A 2000 fps bullet is supersonic in air but not in the body. The speed of sound in the body is about 5000 fps so it subsonic.  This means that there is no shock wave, just an acoustic wave propagating rapidly away from the bullet.

The notion that the bullet passing near the spine but not striking the spine would cause not only a neurological reaction but a specific neurological reaction that results after several days in a person whose spinal cord was severed was not advanced by any neurologist.  It was advanced by someone years later who has no qualifications as a neurologist: Dr. Lattimer, a urologist. Being two letters short doesn’t make one almost a neurologist.

Did the autopsy reveal that JFK's transvers process had been damaged during the assassination?

If so, do you think it happened when he fell onto Jackie?

Do you think JFK "clutched his neck"?

If so, do you think he did it because a bullet had penetrated it from the front or side?
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 04:09:24 AM by Tom Graves »

Offline Andrew Mason

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Did the autopsy reveal that JFK's transvers process had been damaged during the assassination?

No. It is not mentioned in the autopsy report nor in the Warren Report.  It was first mentioned publicly in 1979 by the medical panel of the HSCA.  It is at best a non-displaced fracture if it is a fracture.


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Do you think JFK "clutched his neck"?

If so, do you think he did it because a bullet had penetrated it from the front or side?
I base conclusions of fact on evidence. The evidence is clear that the bullet passed through from back to front.

Online Tom Graves

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No. It is not mentioned in the autopsy report nor in the Warren Report. It was first mentioned publicly in 1979 by the medical panel of the HSCA.  It is at best a non-displaced fracture if it is a fracture. [Emphasis added by T. Graves]

"The [HSCA] panel agrees that the tissue disruption due to the temporary cavity created by passage of a high or intermediate velocity missile might have produced fractures of the transverse processes of one or several of the lower cervical and/or upper thoracic vertebrae in President Kennedy's neck as indicated by the postmortem X-rays There are significant muscle masses attached to the vertebrae which would receive tremendous shock even if several inches distant from such a missile. A direct grazing missile impact may have occurred, but it would not have been necessary to cause the damage visible in the X-rays."

. . . . . .

Excerpts from a memo to Mark Flanagan, U.S. House of Representatives Select Committee on Assassinations Staff Member, from David 0. Davis, MD, Professor and Chairman Department of Radiology, The George Washington University Hospital, Washington, DC:

"Evaluation of the pre-autopsy film shows that there is some subcutaneous or interstitial air overlying the right C7and T1 transverse processes There is disruption of the integrity of the transverse process of T1 which in comparison with its mate on the opposite side and also with the previously taken film mentioned above indicates that there has been a fracture in that area."

[…]

"There is evidence of interstitial air on the pre-autopsy film and evidence of a right T1 transverse process fracture both on the pre-autopsy and post-autopsy film."

« Last Edit: Yesterday at 07:11:43 AM by Tom Graves »

Offline Michael T. Griffith

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You failed to comment on two important parts of Woodward's account:

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After acknowledging our cheers, he faced forward again and suddenly there was a horrible, ear-shattering noise coming from behind us and a little to the right.

From where Woodward was standing, "behind us and a little to the right" would be the grassy knoll.

Woodward was standing about 30 feet east of the freeway sign on Elm Street and about 8 feet west of the first street lamp on Elm Street. The TSBD was about 30 feet east of her (or to her left). A gunshot that came from behind her and to her right would have been a shot fired from the grassy knoll area.

Interestingly, Abraham Zapruder also said a shot came from behind him. Zapruder was standing on the retaining wall on the grassy knoll.   

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The President and Mrs. Kennedy turned and looked around, as if they, too, didn’t believe the noise was really coming from a gun.

I believe her, but this event is not seen in the extant Zapruder film.

Similarly, dozens of witnesses from all over the plaza said the limousine stopped or markedly slowed, but no such event is seen in the extant Zapruder film.

Witnesses described seeing other important events that are not seen in the Zapruder film.


Online John Corbett

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You failed to comment on two important parts of Woodward's account:

From where Woodward was standing, "behind us and a little to the right" would be the grassy knoll.

Yes it is. So what? It just illustrates what we have known all along. There was considerable disagreement among the earwitnesses regarding where the sound of gunfire came from. The forensic evidence all supports those who said the shots came from the direction of the TSBD. There is zero forensic evidence to support the GK earwitnesses. There were eyewitnesses that saw a gunman in the TSBD. There are zero eyewitnesses to a gunman on the GK.
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Woodward was standing about 30 feet east of the freeway sign on Elm Street and about 8 feet west of the first street lamp on Elm Street. The TSBD was about 30 feet east of her (or to her left). A gunshot that came from behind her and to her right would have been a shot fired from the grassy knoll area.

There was no  gunshot that came from the GK. That was just her mistaken impression.
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Interestingly, Abraham Zapruder also said a shot came from behind him. Zapruder was standing on the retaining wall on the grassy knoll.

BFD. Zapruder was wrong too. Holding a home movie camera doesn't improve one's powers of perception.
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I believe her, but this event is not seen in the extant Zapruder film.

Similarly, dozens of witnesses from all over the plaza said the limousine stopped or markedly slowed, but no such event is seen in the extant Zapruder film.

Wrong again. The Z-film does show the limo did slow down and that is what allowed Clint Hill to catch up to it. It started to accelerate just as he grabbed the hand-hold on the trunk which almost caused him to lose his balance. 
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Witnesses described seeing other important events that are not seen in the Zapruder film.

Oh, goody.

Offline Andrew Mason

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"The [HSCA] panel agrees that the tissue disruption due to the temporary cavity created by passage of a high or intermediate velocity missile might have produced fractures of the transverse processes of one or several of the lower cervical and/or upper thoracic vertebrae in President Kennedy's neck as indicated by the postmortem X-rays There are significant muscle masses attached to the vertebrae which would receive tremendous shock even if several inches distant from such a missile. A direct grazing missile impact may have occurred, but it would not have been necessary to cause the damage visible in the X-rays."

. . . . . .

Excerpts from a memo to Mark Flanagan, U.S. House of Representatives Select Committee on Assassinations Staff Member, from David 0. Davis, MD, Professor and Chairman Department of Radiology, The George Washington University Hospital, Washington, DC:

"Evaluation of the pre-autopsy film shows that there is some subcutaneous or interstitial air overlying the right C7and T1 transverse processes There is disruption of the integrity of the transverse process of T1 which in comparison with its mate on the opposite side and also with the previously taken film mentioned above indicates that there has been a fracture in that area."

[…]

"There is evidence of interstitial air on the pre-autopsy film and evidence of a right T1 transverse process fracture both on the pre-autopsy and post-autopsy film."
While consultant radiologist Dr. G.M. McDonnel reported an undisplaced fracture of the right transverse process of T1, panel experts debated whether the evidence represented an actual bone fracture.  Because the bullet brings air into the wound as it passes through, it is difficult to determine whether the darker density on the xray is the result of "interstitial air" (meaning there is a bit of air in the tissue surrounding the bone that causes it to appear darker where the air is) or a fracture. It is not as if there was no doubt that it was a fracture. However, if it was a fracture, there was no displacement of the tiny transverse process.

Offline Michael T. Griffith

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While consultant radiologist Dr. G.M. McDonnel reported an undisplaced fracture of the right transverse process of T1, panel experts debated whether the evidence represented an actual bone fracture.  Because the bullet brings air into the wound as it passes through, it is difficult to determine whether the darker density on the xray is the result of "interstitial air" (meaning there is a bit of air in the tissue surrounding the bone that causes it to appear darker where the air is) or a fracture. It is not as if there was no doubt that it was a fracture. However, if it was a fracture, there was no displacement of the tiny transverse process.

The T1 damage could have quite easily come from the bullet that struck at T3.