William Bruce Pitzer: Not exactly a busted factoid

[John Corbett]

Because of the general dysfunction of the research community Pitzer was not explored as deeply as he should have been...

IOW, they didn't go deep enough into the rabbit hole.

You guys never cease to amuse me.

[Mitch Todd]

You haven't read Belzer and Wayne's chapter on the Pitzer case, have you?

Yes, Pitzer had been accepted for an associate professor position at a local college. Most people would consider that to be a good job, a very good job. Between his teaching salary and his Navy retirement pay, Pitzer would have been quite comfortable. So, why would he have suddenly shot himself? I notice you provided no motive for his alleged suicide.

So Pitzer supposedly used his left hand "to steady the gun by wrapping it over the top of the cylinder"? Oh, please. Give me a break. Why would he not have simply held the revolver in his right hand, put up against his head, and pulled the trigger? That's how suicidal people usually shoot themselves in the head. But, nah, you've got Pitzer "wrapping" his left hand "over the top of the cylinder" so you can explain the paraffin test results (no GSR on either side of his right hand).

Yes, the heel print could have been from a first responder, but we don't know whose print it was because the FBI did not bother to check it. The FBI could have easily checked the shoes of the first responders to determine if one of them made the heel print, but they didn't.

No, I did not misrepresent the distance of the shot per the FBI report. It said, "the revolver must have been held at a distance of more than 3 ft when discharged."

I notice you snipped and ignored the fact that Pitzer wrote himself a note to remind him to return the revolver that he had signed out. Humm, now that's hardly what you'd expect from a guy who planned on using the revolver to shoot himself.

Regarding the FBI's failure to find any evidence that Pitzer had obtained ammo for the revolver, you say, "he could have obtained it anywhere, paid cash, and no one would have remembered him buying it." So when the FBI showed a photo of Pitzer to local gun shops and asked if he had bought ammo, no would have recognized him, even though he would have bought the ammo fairly recently? Yeah, of course.

And why in the devil would he have bought the ammo himself when he could have checked out ammo from the security office when he signed out the revolver? 

Pitzer's family and friends rejected the suicide story. They noted that Pitzer was mentally and emotionally tough and not the kind of person to let problems get him down.

Pitzer was literally just a few days away from retiring from the Navy. And, again, he had a good job lined up. His family said he was "very cheerful" that morning.

Pitzer's wife reported that Navy officials threatened her with the loss of her husband's Navy pension if she didn't accept the suicide verdict and "keep her mouth shut."

You question whether Pitzer was ever warned to keep quiet about his knowledge of the JFK autopsy, yet even Heiner admits this happened.

It's just sad that you folks would desecrate a man's life by claiming he killed himself when the evidence indicates he did not -- and all because you can't bring yourselves to admit there was an organized campaign to kill certain JFKA witnesses, even though a decorated Army Special Forces officer reported that a CIA man approached him about killing Pitzer.

MG: You haven't read Belzer and Wayne's chapter on the Pitzer case, have you?

Why would anyone read it when they've read Eaglesham and Palmer and the FOIA documents?


MG: Yes, Pitzer had been accepted for an associate professor position at a local college.

Who said he was going to be an "associate professor?"  Or any other kind of professor? I'm not even sure if community colleges have tenured professors. My own dad, who also was retired from the military after 20 years, taught in a community college for years, and never considered himself a professor, assistant or otherwise. Anyway, this is just a red herring to divert attention away from Dennis David's false claim that Pitzer had the fabulous lucrative TV network job waiting for him.


MG: So Pitzer supposedly used his left hand "to steady the gun by wrapping it over the top of the cylinder"?

Yep. As I said, it's been known to happen. IIRC, Eaglesham and Palmer also went over this.


MG: Yes, the heel print could have been from a first responder, but we don't know whose print it was because the FBI did not bother to check it. The FBI could have easily checked the shoes of the first responders to determine if one of them made the heel print, but they didn't.

They didn't because it wasn't distinct enough to be used for definitive comparison. Says so in their report.


MG: No, I did not misrepresent the distance of the shot per the FBI report. It said, "the revolver must have been held at a distance of more than 3 ft when discharged."

I didn't say you misrepresented the distance mentioned in the FBI report. I said that you misrepresented the evidence. Some FBI agent attributed the lack of powder tattooing to a distant shot (in this case a distant shot from over 3' away). However, the local ME reported that there was a muzzle imprint ("muzzle marks")  at the wound site. The muzzle imprint indicates that the muzzle was against the skin when the gun was fired. Again, this would account for the lack of power tattooing, since the GSR follows the bullet into the wound, and can't spread and scatter on the surface of the skin around the entry site. But you say you've read extensively about GSW forensics, so you would already know this, right?


MG: I notice you snipped and ignored the fact that Pitzer wrote himself a note to remind him to return the revolver that he had signed out. Humm, now that's hardly what you'd expect from a guy who planned on using the revolver to shoot himself.

Pitzer checked out the revolver weeks before he died to use as an instructional prop during, along with the .38 Special blank rounds found in the revolver and on the desk.
His state of mind when he checked out the gun would not then be expected to reflect his state of mind the night he died.


MG: Regarding the FBI's failure to find any evidence that Pitzer had obtained ammo for the revolver, you say, "he could have obtained it anywhere, paid cash, and no one would have remembered him buying it." So when the FBI showed a photo of Pitzer to local gun shops and asked if he had bought ammo, no would have recognized him, even though he would have bought the ammo fairly recently? Yeah, of course.

Where, exactly, does it say that the FBI went to every gun store in the area with a photo of Pitzer? And, BTW, to be complete, in 1966, the FBI search would have needed to include gun stores, sporting goods stores, many department stores, and even many hardware stores. Ammunition was more widely available in those days. Think of the number of stores we're talking about within a reasonable radius of Bethesda, Maryland. I seriously doubt that the FBI went to that much trouble.


MG: And why in the devil would he have bought the ammo himself when he could have checked out ammo from the security office when he signed out the revolver? 

Again, the revolver was checked out weeks before for purposes other than suicide...and it did come with ammunition, albeit blanks.


Pitzer's family and friends rejected the suicide story. They noted that Pitzer was mentally and emotionally tough and not the kind of person to let problems get him down.

Men tend to be stoic, not letting show the demons gnawing on their souls, and their suicides can and do come as a surprise as a result.


Pitzer was literally just a few days away from retiring from the Navy. And, again, he had a good job lined up. His family said he was "very cheerful" that morning.

People who are about to commit suicide often exhibit a cheerful, happy, even serene demeanor in the hours, days, even weeks before taking their own lives. After all, they've come to a decisive solution of all of the problems eating away at them, and that can bring tremendous, if incongruous, peace of mind. I saw this happen with a friend of mine who shot himself about 20 years ago.
 

Pitzer's wife reported that Navy officials threatened her with the loss of her husband's Navy pension if she didn't accept the suicide verdict and "keep her mouth shut."

Lance has already dealt with this. It's a misstatement of what she'd actually said.


You question whether Pitzer was ever warned to keep quiet about his knowledge of the JFK autopsy, yet even Heiner admits this happened.

Red herring. How would Heiner have known, since he wasn't there?

[Michael T. Griffith]

I think the case of William Pitzer boils down to one's ability to judge the evidence objectively regardless of one's beliefs about the JFK assassination. Pitzer's case does not resemble the usual suicide scenario, not even close. And, we have a highly credible witness, a decorated Army Special Forces combat veteran, who said he was approached by a CIA officer about killing Pitzer.

Pitzer had a good job lined up and was literally days away from retiring with a comfy military pension, with lifelong free health care, and with lifelong access to tax-free military shopping and grocery facilities. He was described as being cheerful that morning, and his friends and family said he was a resilient person who would not let trouble get him down. He left no suicide note but instead was busy doing paperwork just before he allegedly decided to shoot himself. He had even left himself a written reminder to return the pistol that he had signed out. There are serious questions about the forensic evidence of his death, in addition to the fact that he simply does not at all fit the standard profile of a suicidal person.

And then there is the Army Special Forces officer, LTC Daniel Marvin, a decorated war hero, who reported in a filmed interview and in writing that he was approached by a CIA officer about killing Pitzer because Pitzer was supposedly going to betray his country by revealing state secrets. LTC Marvin had been involved in assassination operations overseas, so it is not surprising that he would have been considered a candidate for a hit on American soil.

As I've said, in watching Marvin's interview in The Men Who Killed Kennedy, I find Marvin to be entirely credible. He was clearly well educated, articulate, serious, and sincere. I doubt the veracity of many people -- not all, but many -- who have come forward with pro-conspiracy accounts, but I have no doubt about Marvin's sincerity, intelligence, and credibility.

But, you see, any lone-gunman theorists who admit that Pitzer was murdered and that Marvin was credible are admitting there was an organized effort to kill certain witnesses, and they are unwilling to do that.

There are a number of cases of alleged murder of witnesses that I find to be unconvincing and in some instances even dubious and fraudulent. The case of William Bruce Pitzer is not of them.

[Brian Doyle]

The dysfunctional research community is full of egotists like Jim DiEugenio who like hijacking the research world and catering to themselves as their main interest...The Education Forum is now the embodiment of that and actually serves to prevent research rather than encourage it in order to satisfy the egos of the main researchers...They like reading their own writing more than cracking the case...I'm surprised Congress survived DiEugenio's ego sucking up all the oxygen in the room at the Task Force hearing...Because of this no one ever went to Dennis David while he was alive and asked him for more details on Pitzer wiring the autopsy room with remote filming equipment...The research community has some skilled researchers no doubt, but sometimes they miss the full significance of what they uncover...When someone stands up and tries to nudge them to the finishing line of the conclusions they came up just short of that person gets attacked and set upon by the moderator sycophants who serve those egotists...This is the case with Pitzer and no one went to Dennis David and got the critical details of Pitzer's installing remote filming equipment in the Bethesda Autopsy Room...I think what happened with Pitzer is he unknowingly remotely filmed the covert pre-autopsy and illegal altering of the wounds from the front thinking he was filming the actual official autopsy...You can imagine the reaction Pitzer had when he slowly realized what he had filmed and its significance...This inspired Pitzer so much that he ran out in to the hall and pulled Dennis David in to his office to show him what he discovered...At this point Pitzer now became an "enemy of the state" who threatened to give dangerous state secrets to the enemy...It just shows you how these people think and what terms they use (sounds awfully familiar)...This is an easy one...Pitzer was tortured and his hand was mangled until he gave up where the films were and then he was "suicided"...He had hidden the films up in the ceiling tile where they were retrieved before this little evil faked suicide...   

[Mitch Todd]

I think the case of William Pitzer boils down to one's ability to judge the evidence objectively regardless of one's beliefs about the JFK assassination. Pitzer's case does not resemble the usual suicide scenario, not even close. And, we have a highly credible witness, a decorated Army Special Forces combat veteran, who said he was approached by a CIA officer about killing Pitzer.

Pitzer had a good job lined up and was literally days away from retiring with a comfy military pension, with lifelong free health care, and with lifelong access to tax-free military shopping and grocery facilities. He was described as being cheerful that morning, and his friends and family said he was a resilient person who would not let trouble get him down. He left no suicide note but instead was busy doing paperwork just before he allegedly decided to shoot himself. He had even left himself a written reminder to return the pistol that he had signed out. There are serious questions about the forensic evidence of his death, in addition to the fact that he simply does not at all fit the standard profile of a suicidal person.

And then there is the Army Special Forces officer, LTC Daniel Marvin, a decorated war hero, who reported in a filmed interview and in writing that he was approached by a CIA officer about killing Pitzer because Pitzer was supposedly going to betray his country by revealing state secrets. LTC Marvin had been involved in assassination operations overseas, so it is not surprising that he would have been considered a candidate for a hit on American soil.

As I've said, in watching Marvin's interview in The Men Who Killed Kennedy, I find Marvin to be entirely credible. He was clearly well educated, articulate, serious, and sincere. I doubt the veracity of many people -- not all, but many -- who have come forward with pro-conspiracy accounts, but I have no doubt about Marvin's sincerity, intelligence, and credibility.

But, you see, any lone-gunman theorists who admit that Pitzer was murdered and that Marvin was credible are admitting there was an organized effort to kill certain witnesses, and they are unwilling to do that.

There are a number of cases of alleged murder of witnesses that I find to be unconvincing and in some instances even dubious and fraudulent. The case of William Bruce Pitzer is not of them.

Just more fringe reset from you. All of these points have already been addressed in this thread. In fact, most of them were disintegrated in the previous post.

All you can do is repeat the same nonsense over and over again, adn hope no one notices.