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Author Topic: The Hole in the Limousine's Windshield: Proof of a Second Gunman  (Read 3044 times)

Online John Corbett

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Re: The Hole in the Limousine's Windshield: Proof of a Second Gunman
« Reply #35 on: July 22, 2026, 03:29:15 PM »
   Why should your opinion need to be buttressed by some lame "approval rating"? Polls are a dime a dozen. Buck up.

I cited the poll to show that my low opinion of Congress is shared by the vast majority of Americans. We can always debate the validity of that opinion. Suffice it to say that I don't find getting elected to Congress an indication that person has a great deal of intelligence. Some do but it is not a prerequisite for getting elected. Hell, even this person not only got elected 18 times but is now the ranking member of the powerful House Appropriations Committee.

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Re: The Hole in the Limousine's Windshield: Proof of a Second Gunman
« Reply #35 on: July 22, 2026, 03:29:15 PM »


Online Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: The Hole in the Limousine's Windshield: Proof of a Second Gunman
« Reply #36 on: July 22, 2026, 03:37:47 PM »
I cited the poll to show that my low opinion of Congress is shared by the vast majority of Americans. We can always debate the validity of that opinion. Suffice it to say that I don't find getting elected to Congress an indication that person has a great deal of intelligence. Some do but it is not a prerequisite for getting elected. Hell, even this person not only got elected 18 times but is now the ranking member of the powerful House Appropriations Committee.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=dKx%2f2Y%2bY&id=B12CD0A59C020812F625131E767D0DF96CE76C63&thid=OIP.dKx_2Y-YAWeyKsH5WyQzlgHaEK&mediaurl=https%3a%2f%2fstatic.foxnews.com%2ffoxnews.com%2fcontent%2fuploads%2f2023%2f09%2fRosa-DeLauro.jpg&cdnurl=https%3a%2f%2fth.bing.com%2fth%2fid%2fR.74ac7fd98f980167b22ac1f95b243396%3frik%3dY2znbPkNfXYeEw%26pid%3dImgRaw%26r%3d0&exph=720&expw=1280&q=pictures+of+the+blue+haired+congresswoman&mode=overlay&FORM=IQFRBA&ck=2FF3A90E0CE29E75ACC426927892818C&selectedIndex=0&idpp=serp&ajaxhist=0&ajaxserp=0
What does public opinion of Congress *today* tell us about how the HSCA conducted its investigation some 45 years ago? How does the first relate to the second?

American don't like Congress today, they think it does a poor job and that means the HSCA also did a poor job? A completely different Congress and committee almost half a century ago? In your thinking the fact that most Americans *today* think it's doing a poor job means every Congress and every committee in American history, everything done before now, was incompetent and worthless. Regardless of what they did.

That's not logical.

In their very first paragraph of their report, the HSCA said this:



Should we reject all of the above because *today* Americans view Congress so negatively?
« Last Edit: July 22, 2026, 04:02:12 PM by Steve M. Galbraith »

Online John Corbett

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Re: The Hole in the Limousine's Windshield: Proof of a Second Gunman
« Reply #37 on: July 22, 2026, 04:04:59 PM »
Let's back up a bit. My initial comments about Congress were in response to Benjamin Cole's comment that the HSCA was a "smart group". I find it laughable to assume that being a member of Congress is an indication of superior intellect. There have been some outstanding people who served in Congress over the years but there have been some real dumbasses as well as more than a few sleaze bags. Eric Swalwell and Matt Gsetz being just two recent examples of that. I see no evidence that the people we send Congress are our best and brightest people. A few are, but they seem to be the exceptions.

I judge the HSCA on their work, not their credentials. They had an opportunity to provide a valuable service to country and they blew it. They spit the bit before they crossed the finish line and all they did was muddy the waters. Those who wrote the dissenting opinions showed both intelligence and character but unfortunately, they were in the minority on that body.

Online Michael T. Griffith

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Re: The Hole in the Limousine's Windshield: Proof of a Second Gunman
« Reply #38 on: July 22, 2026, 04:05:30 PM »
Additional support for the front-to-back windshield shot comes from former Secret Service agent Paul Landis's 2023 disclosure that he recovered a moderately damaged bullet from the top of the back seat of the limo and that he also saw two bullet fragments on the back seat, next to where Jackie had been sitting.

His disclosure of seeing two bullet fragments on the back seat is almost as important as his account of finding an extra bullet. The two limo fragments that were later entered into evidence, CE 567 and CE 569, could not have been the fragments that Landis saw recovered from the front end of the limo's interior: one was found on the seat beside the driver, while the other was found along the right side of the front seat. We can add the back-seat bullet fragments to the sizable list of fragments that were excluded from the official record and whose whereabouts remain unknown.

Two articles on Landis's disclosure:

https://www.kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/jfk-secret-service-agent-paul-landis-makes-a-big-splash-in-2023-ahead-of-the-60th-anniversary-of-the-kennedy-assassination-but-how-credible-is-he

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2023/09/new-jfk-assassination-revelation-upend-lone-gunman#intcid=_vanity-fair-verso-hp-trending_55769946-16e1-4879-9a1f-360e0a2eb3c7_popular4-1

Landis insisted he put the bullet on JFK's stretcher, since he assumed it came from JFK's body. However, there is compelling evidence that another bullet was found on Connally's stretcher, a fact that Connally himself confirmed, and that the Connally stretcher bullet was not CE 399 (see, for example, Robert Harris's article "The Connally Bullet" and Dr. Gary Aguilar and Dr. Josiah Thompson's article "The Magic Bullet: Even More Magical Than We Knew?").

The bullet that Landis found could have come from the windshield shot. The limo's safety glass would have caused little deformity to a rifle bullet, although it could have slightly altered the bullet's course.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2026, 04:06:18 PM by Michael T. Griffith »

Online John Corbett

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Re: The Hole in the Limousine's Windshield: Proof of a Second Gunman
« Reply #39 on: July 22, 2026, 04:20:36 PM »
Additional support for the front-to-back windshield shot comes from former Secret Service agent Paul Landis's 2023 disclosure that he recovered a moderately damaged bullet from the top of the back seat of the limo and that he also saw two bullet fragments on the back seat, next to where Jackie had been sitting.

His disclosure of seeing two bullet fragments on the back seat is almost as important as his account of finding an extra bullet. The two limo fragments that were later entered into evidence, CE 567 and CE 569, could not have been the fragments that Landis saw recovered from the front end of the limo's interior: one was found on the seat beside the driver, while the other was found along the right side of the front seat. We can add the back-seat bullet fragments to the sizable list of fragments that were excluded from the official record and whose whereabouts remain unknown.

Two articles on Landis's disclosure:

https://www.kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/jfk-secret-service-agent-paul-landis-makes-a-big-splash-in-2023-ahead-of-the-60th-anniversary-of-the-kennedy-assassination-but-how-credible-is-he

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2023/09/new-jfk-assassination-revelation-upend-lone-gunman#intcid=_vanity-fair-verso-hp-trending_55769946-16e1-4879-9a1f-360e0a2eb3c7_popular4-1

Landis insisted he put the bullet on JFK's stretcher, since he assumed it came from JFK's body. However, there is compelling evidence that another bullet was found on Connally's stretcher, a fact that Connally himself confirmed, and that the Connally stretcher bullet was not CE 399 (see, for example, Robert Harris's article "The Connally Bullet" and Dr. Gary Aguilar and Dr. Josiah Thompson's article "The Magic Bullet: Even More Magical Than We Knew?").

The bullet that Landis found could have come from the windshield shot. The limo's safety glass would have caused little deformity to a rifle bullet, although it could have slightly altered the bullet's course.

Landis' 60 year old account is rather dubious on the surface. I understand he wasn't an experienced crime scene investigator but even a layman would understand that a bullet found in the limo would be a critical piece of evidence and it is hard to comprehend that he would have casually placed such a critical piece of evidence on JFK's stretcher. Even if true, that bullet is almost certainly CE399 which precludes it from having been fired from the front since it was proven to have been fired by the rifle found in the TSBD to the exclusion of all other weapons in the world. The only bullets in evidence are CE399 and the fragmented bullet found in the limo, both having been fired by Oswald's Carcano. No bullets or spent shells from any other weapon were recovered from Dealey Plaza following the shooting.

Online Michael T. Griffith

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All Whitaker did was show he got the same mistaken impression of the damaged windshield as the people who saw it at Parkland.

"Mistaken impression"?! So eight witnesses in three different locations all "got the same mistaken impression"?! All eight of them could not tell the difference between a crack and a hole?!

So do tell us how Officer Ellis could have gotten this "mistaken impression" when he put a pencil through the hole. Tell us how Secret Service agent Taylor, who rode in the limousine from Andrews Air Force Base to the White House garage, a 25-35-minute drive, and then watched FBI technicians remove fragments from the hole, could have mistaken a crack for a hole, especially given the wording of his report:

In addition, of particular note was the small hole just left of center in the windshield from which what appeared to be bullet fragments were removed.

Do tell us how Evalea Glanges, a medical student at the time who later became head of the surgery department at a major hospital, could have "mistaken" a crack for a hole, given that she specified that she didn't see any cracks around the hole, but just the hole. This rings true because when objects make holes in windshields, cracks often don't develop from the hole until later, as I have personally seen with the windshields of two of my cars. Glanges specified that the hole was a "real clean hole." I should add that Glanges had years of experience with firearms, having been a recreational gun enthusiast since childhood. 

And Whitaker was the last person on Earth would have confused a crack for a hole. As a senior windshield technician, he had seen all kinds of testing done on windshields. He saw the windshield after it had been removed from the limo. He was able to examine both sides of the windshield from just inches away. Noted Whitaker,

And the windshield had a bullet hole in it, coming from the outside through. You could see it from the way it was broken. . . It was a good, clean bullet hole, right straight through, from the front. And you can tell, when the bullet hits the windshield, like when you hit a rock or something, what happens? The back chips out and the front may just have a pinhole in it. This had a clean round hole in the front and fragmentation coming out the back. . . .

I worked in the industry for forty years and I've seen all kinds of testing on glass, and I know it came from the front. ("The Kennedy Limousine: Dallas 1963", pp. 143-144)


You lamely and dishonestly claim that Weldon found Whitaker to be credible "solely because his story conflicts" with the Warren Report. You obviously know nothing about Doug Weldon, and you apparently have not read Weldon's detailed explanation for why he found Whitaker to be credible. 

You see, you folks aren't interested in following the evidence where it leads. You keep saying, "if there was a conspiracy, someone would have talked." Well, many people have talked, but in every single case, when those people's accounts contradict the lone-gunman theory, you reach and strain for any excuse, no matter how lame, to either reject their accounts or to accuse them of lying.

MTG never bothers to consider how silly it would have been to fire a shot at JFK through the windshield from a frontal position. The shooter would have been right out in the open for all to see. The witnesses on the bridge would have easily seen such a shooter and heard the shot. That shooter would have had to thread the needle to get a shot past Kellerman and JBC. Really neat trick given that Kellerman was in the front passenger seat and JBC's jump seat was offset to the inside. A bullet fired from the bridge striking low on the windshield where MTG claims it did, would never have been on a trajectory to reach JFK. Considering all those factors would have required MTG to apply critical thinking to the situation. Critical thinking is a trait rarely displayed by JFKA conspiracy fanatics.....like MTG.

This is yet another display of your ignorance of JFK assassination research. Obviously, you didn't bother to read the main source I linked in the OP, i.e., Weldon's chapter on the windshield hole. I'm sure you didn't read any of the other linked sources either. If you had read Weldon's chapter, you would have discovered that he addresses the issue of the position of the shooter who fired through the windshield. He documents that a shooter firing the from the south side of the triple underpass would not have been "right in the open for all to see." In fact, he would have been well concealed.

Moreover, Sherry Fiester, an instructor and court-certified expert in crime-scene reconstruction and blood-spatter analysis, found another location on the south knoll, a different location than the one Weldon identified, that would have also provided good concealment. She discusses this in her 2012 book Enemy of the Truth, Myths, Forensics, and the Kennedy Assassination and in the 2016 documentary A Coup in Camelot.

This stuff was covered years ago, but, as usual, you have no clue because your research has been so meager and biased. 

 
« Last Edit: Today at 01:29:31 PM by Michael T. Griffith »

Online Royell Storing

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I cited the poll to show that my low opinion of Congress is shared by the vast majority of Americans. We can always debate the validity of that opinion. Suffice it to say that I don't find getting elected to Congress an indication that person has a great deal of intelligence. Some do but it is not a prerequisite for getting elected. Hell, even this person not only got elected 18 times but is now the ranking member of the powerful House Appropriations Committee.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=dKx%2f2Y%2bY&id=B12CD0A59C020812F625131E767D0DF96CE76C63&thid=OIP.dKx_2Y-YAWeyKsH5WyQzlgHaEK&mediaurl=https%3a%2f%2fstatic.foxnews.com%2ffoxnews.com%2fcontent%2fuploads%2f2023%2f09%2fRosa-DeLauro.jpg&cdnurl=https%3a%2f%2fth.bing.com%2fth%2fid%2fR.74ac7fd98f980167b22ac1f95b243396%3frik%3dY2znbPkNfXYeEw%26pid%3dImgRaw%26r%3d0&exph=720&expw=1280&q=pictures+of+the+blue+haired+congresswoman&mode=overlay&FORM=IQFRBA&ck=2FF3A90E0CE29E75ACC426927892818C&selectedIndex=0&idpp=serp&ajaxhist=0&ajaxserp=0

   Citing a "poll"? Like that poll that had a "Nazi" running ahead in the race for U.S. Senate? Stop with the polls!

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