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Author Topic: Quoting Common Sense  (Read 543 times)

Online Tom Scully

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Re: Quoting Common Sense
« Reply #21 on: Yesterday at 10:04:12 PM »
....
-Snip-
My guess would be that Oswald was simply looking for jobs in downtown Dallas and wanted a room convenient to the main bus line. I think that's a more logical interpretation than that he knew he'd be working at the TSBD because it had all been scripted in advaance.

I'm really not familiar with Adele at all. For those who likewise aren't, here is a 2004 thread started by John Simkin at the Ed Forum where his original post summarizes her story in considerable detail: https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/609-adele-edisen/.

Below is a photo of the pleasant-looking Adele. This is from the unlikely site Cassiopaea, the Fellowship of the Cosmic Mind. In a thread titled "High Strangeness, Adele Edison and the otherwordly murder of JFK," someone named Michael B-C seems to know a hell of a lot about Adele:
https://cassiopaea.org/forum/threads/high-strangeness-adele-edisen-and-the-otherworldly-murder-of-jfk.48858/

Seriously, that thread is worth reading.

This sounds like it's right down my weirdness alley, and I'll have to dive into it!



It gets much, much weirder, Lance.

Adele claimed she was moved by the assassination to ignore her psychiatrist husband's strong advice against it,
and proceed on the morning after, November, 23, to report her story about Rivera to the Secret Service office in NOLA, where she resided at the time.

The federal building seemed closed but she gained access and met up with SS Saic John Rice and an FBI agent named Odum. Rice had been talking to.
She said that they advised that they were leaving that afternoon by plane for a meeting in Dallas.

Adele in her own words at age 73, in 2001,


Agent Rice was deceased by 2010 when I spoke with Adele. His wife's birthday happened to be on 11/22.
According to the wedding announcement, was living near the Polk base and it was located on the route to Shreveport.
I felt strongly Rice dropped his wife off to visit their daughter and celebrate her mother's birthday.
The daughter may have been able to corroborate details of Adele's visit with her father and that he
flew to Dallas for a meeting. Agent Rice's trip to Shreveport on the morning of 11/22 was known because the
record indicates he was ordered to question a Jack Martin of northern Louisiana hours after the JFKA and he
filed a report about that diversion of his return trip from Shreveport.

I located Rice's daughter and gave Adele location and contact info.

Adele seemed grateful to receive that contact information but she then sat on it. She told me she did not want to disturb
Rice's daughter. I also found a contemoorary photo of Rice's daughter.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 10:30:19 PM by Tom Scully »

Offline Lance Payette

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Re: Quoting Common Sense
« Reply #22 on: Yesterday at 11:09:06 PM »
Fortified by a second screwdriver (hey, my wife is in Belarus until Wednesday, so the cats and I are living it up!), I read the l-o-n-g 2009 interview with Adele. She was very sharp and told a consistent story. Two red flags might be: (1) she didn't go public until 1991, two years after Rivera had died, and (2) by the time of the interview, she was neck-deep in CT theorizing and had obviously been for a long time; she was even a member of the Ed Forum. Roswell researchers have been burned by so many characters who seemed so credible for so long, until they were finally exposed, that I would definitely say "proceed with caution." One "plus" with Adele is that her story is so flat-out wild that it almost invites the "she's nuts" response; the hoaxsters seldom have a tale this wild (unless their names are Judyth Vary Baker).

Offline Lance Payette

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Re: Quoting Common Sense
« Reply #23 on: Yesterday at 11:21:48 PM »
Once again, the intrepid John Armstrong was on the case: Here is his Adele Edisen file in the John Armstrong Collection at Baylor. In early 1985, she did provide to the San Antonio FBI office a narrative of the events involving Rivera as well as her own CV with a list of her professional publications. San Antonio forwarded it on to the Director (yep - my good buddy William Webster!  :D :D :D). So she was definitely public with this before Rivera had died.

https://digitalcollections-baylor.quartexcollections.com/Documents/Detail/new-orleans-witnesses-adele-edisen/705722?item=705723

Offline Lance Payette

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Re: Quoting Common Sense
« Reply #24 on: Yesterday at 11:49:08 PM »
OK, I'm beating this past the point of common sense (and proud of it!  :D). In a long dialogue with Tom at the Ed Forum, here is the esteemed Bill Kelly's take on what this might have been all about. I can't say it makes a whole lot of sense to me, but maybe that's a point in Adele's favor:

My personal opinion is the whole Edisen/Rivera saga is about a security test run, devised in April, 1963, to see if the Secret Service and FBI lines could be trusted or had to be neutralized or compromised further, and indeed Adele does what Rivera tells her she will do and that's to contact the Secret Service BEFORE the assassination and tell them something is wrong. Rice is given the assignment and he wants to know more and opens the door, so when she finally comes in on Sunday, Nov. 24, the test run comes back. Rice and Bartlett then take in everything Adele has to tell them, pass it on to their superiors in DC and Baltimore, and let them put the stoppers in.

Adele was sent out as a sort of trial balloon to see how the security apparatus would respond and who would do the responding, and it appears that even though Adele has a high opinion of Agents Rice and Bartlett, they had to have been compromised for giving Col. Rivera a free "get out of jail" card.

And its a shame that nobody ever got to question Rice and Bartlett about these things before they died.

Most significant, and I'm sure the History Channel's resident historian Steve Gallen and Mr. Morrow should be interested in this - the FBI's Orin Bartlett, liaison to the Secret Service and White House at the time of the assassination, and in on the interview with Adele on Sunday afternoon as Oswald is being shot, this same guy FBI agent Bartlett is the guy that LBJ specifically requested to be aboard AF1 whenever and whereever he traveled. And this request or order was made by LBJ directly to J. E. Hoover, and an order carried out. LBJ told Hoover that he didn't trust the Secret Service and wanted an FBI agent he could trust to be with him when he was aboard AF1.

So it isn't just about Col. Rivera and Dr. Edisen, it's about the individuals she leads us to, especailly John W. Rice and Orrin Bartlett, both of whom become entwined up to their ears, Rice in investigating Oswald in New Oreans and Bartlett as LBJ's private security blanket.



As far as Adele is concerned, I have taken what she has said, and followed up on it as best I can, and unlike other witnesses, she leads me to other witnesses and suspects - all of whom are interesting in their own right - especially Jose Rivera, John W. Rice and Orrin Bartlett.

She certainly didn't make their names up, and when checked, they were exactly what she said they were - a NIH scientists and Col. in Army reserves, the head of the SS in New Orleans and the FBI liaison to the Secret Service, and they each have other roles to play in the Dealey Plaza drama other than what Adele has to say.

So even if you discount everything she says about everything else, these are three aces she brought to the table that would have gone by the wayside had she not called our attention to them.


Online Tom Scully

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Re: Quoting Common Sense
« Reply #25 on: Today at 12:00:10 AM »
Once again, the intrepid John Armstrong was on the case: Here is his Adele Edisen file in the John Armstrong Collection at Baylor. In early 1985, she did provide to the San Antonio FBI office a narrative of the events involving Rivera as well as her own CV with a list of her professional publications. San Antonio forwarded it on to the Director (yep - my good buddy William Webster!  :D :D :D). So she was definitely public with this before Rivera had died.

https://digitalcollections-baylor.quartexcollections.com/Documents/Detail/new-orleans-witnesses-adele-edisen/705722?item=705723

Lance, when I talked with Adele for a combined 9 or 10 hours on the telephone over two weekend days in 2010, she was close to my current age and seemingly as sharp
as a tack. She impressed me so much I turned the phone over to my wife and they had an amiable chat.

She told me her son was an Army Colonel and that she had received help from a then FBI agent, presumably in that San Antonio office and that he managed to get her claims into
the inventory record of the HSCA, despite the investigation being closed at that point. Her attorney, in 1976, had written to the HSCA but had not included the name of his
client.

She shared the name of the, by 2010, former FBI agent. I checked it out, he described his former FBI career to assist in obtaining clients in his current business as a PI.
The same name was also the son of the Officer above Dr. Humes who had assigned Humes to perform the autopsy of JFK.
I kept the name to myself, but I regularly received PMs from Gary Mack, correcting details I posted on the Ed Forum, JFK Debate. He did not post publicly, he got other forum members to do it for him. He was unfamiliar with the name and background of that unusual FBI Agent, turned PI.

His father was RADM EDWARD C KENNEY
https://www.vlm.cem.va.gov/EDWARDCKENNEY/66B65B2

Quote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autopsy_of_John_F._Kennedy
......
Navy Surgeon General Edward C. Kenney ordered two naval medical doctors, Commander James Humes and Commander J. Thornton Boswell, to conduct the autopsy.[14] Humes was selected as lead surgeon. Boswell called the decision to conduct the autopsy at Bethesda "stupid" and argued that it should instead be held at the specialized Armed Forces Institute of Pathology (AFIP) just five miles away. Although both had conducted autopsies, neither were trained or certified in forensic pathology.[15 ...
« Last Edit: Today at 12:02:43 AM by Tom Scully »

Offline Lance Payette

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Re: Quoting Common Sense
« Reply #26 on: Today at 01:02:59 AM »
Tom, having now dived into this I am perplexed at how little attention Adele receives. Everyone agrees that she had impeccable credentials, was absolutely lucid and credible, named names, and the information she gave that could be checked out did check out. The only alternatives are that (1) she was a complete and utter fraud from BEFORE THE JFKA (when she contacted the Secret Service) to her dying day or (2) she blows the LN narrative out of the water. There is really no in-between. And yet, she receives not much more attention than the Allright Parking Garage. What the heck, huh? Not only are there not 50 articles explaining all the ways she was a fraud (there really aren't any) but there doesn't seem to be any great enthusiasm within the CT community either.

FWIW, here are her 35 posts at the Ed Forum in the period 2004-2010. As always, she doesn't sound like a crackpot by any means.

https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/profile/631-adele-edisen/content/

The interesting part is, unlike JVB she really isn't central to her wild tale - she's not the "star." What is central is the stuff that Rivera dropped on her out of the blue months before the assassination - Oswald, Abt, the Trade Mart, the suicide of a close JFK friend (Stockdale). I can see why Michael B-C put a mystical spin on all this - it almost sounds like, rather than describing an assassination plot, Rivera was having a precognitive vision of the actual event.

What the heck, huh?

Online Tom Scully

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Re: Quoting Common Sense
« Reply #27 on: Today at 01:29:09 AM »
Tom, having now dived into this I am perplexed at how little attention Adele receives. Everyone agrees that she had impeccable credentials, was absolutely lucid and credible, named names, and the information she gave that could be checked out did check out. The only alternatives are that (1) she was a complete and utter fraud from BEFORE THE JFKA (when she contacted the Secret Service) to her dying day or (2) she blows the LN narrative out of the water. There is really no in-between. And yet, she receives not much more attention than the Allright Parking Garage. What the heck, huh? Not only are there not 50 articles explaining all the ways she was a fraud (there really aren't any) but there doesn't seem to be any great enthusiasm within the CT community either.

FWIW, here are her 35 posts at the Ed Forum in the period 2004-2010. As always, she doesn't sound like a crackpot by any means.

https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/profile/631-adele-edisen/content/

The interesting part is, unlike JVB she really isn't central to her wild tale - she's not the "star." What is central is the stuff that Rivera dropped on her out of the blue months before the assassination - Oswald, Abt, the Trade Mart, the suicide of a close JFK friend (Stockdale). I can see why Michael B-C put a mystical spin on all this - it almost sounds like, rather than describing an assassination plot, Rivera was having a precognitive vision of the actual event.

What the heck, huh?

Lance, I'm attempting to PM you with some details she shared with me that seem too personal, even now, to post oublicly.
If you could please unblock me for a short window and I'll send them to you.  It's been almost 16 years, but I think I
recovered relevant supporting links that existed in 2010.

Your POV as an attorney will be an advantage
to you, when you read what I'd like you to review.
« Last Edit: Today at 01:31:13 AM by Tom Scully »