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Author Topic: JFK Hands Never Go To-Or Toward-His Throat  (Read 4212 times)

Online John Corbett

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Re: JFK Hands Never Go To-Or Toward-His Throat
« Reply #42 on: Yesterday at 06:41:13 PM »
There is no evidence provided in the zfilm that is inconsistent with JBC not reacting to his chest wound before z255. His actions are quite consistent with the rest of the evidence, which is that there has only been one shot to that point.  We have Altgens who was there and took the picture and confirms that. The problem is not with the zfilm. The problem is that the zfilm alone cannot tell you where the second shot occurred.

It tells people with good eyesight and a functioning brain when the second shot was fired that hit both JFK and JBC.

Offline Steve Barber

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Re: JFK Hands Never Go To-Or Toward-His Throat
« Reply #43 on: Today at 02:48:54 AM »
There is no evidence provided in the zfilm that is inconsistent with JBC not reacting to his chest wound before z255. His actions are quite consistent with the rest of the evidence, which is that there has only been one shot to that point.  We have Altgens who was there and took the picture and confirms that. The problem is not with the zfilm. The problem is that the zfilm alone cannot tell you where the second shot occurred.
 



Andrew, I have to disagree with you regarding Gov. Connally's being wounded after frame 255.

 In the Zapruder film, at frame 235, Connally is screaming "Oh no, no, no". after being struck.  His mouth is in speaking motion from that time on in the film until we lose sight of him following the fatal shot.  He stated in his WC testimony:
 
 " I immediately, when I was hit, I said, "Oh, no, no, no." And then I said, "My God, they are going to kill us all." Nellie, when she pulled me over into her lap ".

 The bullet has already passed through his back, chest, wrist and into his leg.

Online Andrew Mason

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Re: JFK Hands Never Go To-Or Toward-His Throat
« Reply #44 on: Today at 04:59:46 AM »

Andrew, I have to disagree with you regarding Gov. Connally's being wounded after frame 255.

 In the Zapruder film, at frame 235, Connally is screaming "Oh no, no, no". after being struck.  His mouth is in speaking motion from that time on in the film until we lose sight of him following the fatal shot.  He stated in his WC testimony:
 
 " I immediately, when I was hit, I said, "Oh, no, no, no." And then I said, "My God, they are going to kill us all." Nellie, when she pulled me over into her lap ".

 The bullet has already passed through his back, chest, wrist and into his leg.
Hello Steve. I agree that he is saying "oh, no, no" around there.  We can see his mouth open at z244 but it may have been open a bit sooner. 

You have correctly stated his WC testimony.  But JBC told Life Magazine something different (Life, 25Nov66, p. 48):



And in 1978 he started to tell the HSCA that he said "oh, no, no" before he was hit and then changed his mind and said he guessed it was after.  But, perhaps most significant, he recalled saying it because he thought the President was being assassinated, not because he was hit by it (1 HSCA 43):



So, while one has to respect the Governor's testimony on that point, my question is: which of the three statements is accurate?  Nellie has always maintained that he said it before the second shot.  She also said that she looked back at JFK before the second shot and did not look back afterward.  She is looking back at him up to about z268.  Altgens said that his z255 photo was taken after the first and before any other shot. Hickey said he was looking at the President when the last two shots sounded. He is turned to the rear in Altgens and has yet to turn forward.  Gayle Newman said that JBC was turned to his right side when the second shot sounded and he just lay back (see her WFAA interview within half an hour of the events). She said the car was passing right in front of them when the second shot sounded.  According to Dr. Shires, Nellie told him that JBC was turned to his right when hit by the second shot.  Greer said he turned around "almost simultaneously" with the second shot and saw JBC in the process of laying back onto Nellie. We can see the final part of that first turn just before z283.

The other aspect that makes me think JBC's WC testimony is incorrect and Nellie's is correct is the lack of any other attempt to even turn his head to face the rear before the turn that begins about z230.  I know that both JBC and Nellie placed the second shot around z234 and that is worthy of consideration. But it is only an opinion of what they think he would have looked like, not what they saw, and it does not fit with the rest of Nellie's testimony.

The problem with JBC being hit earlier than z270 is not the zfilm.  It is the rest of the evidence.  The zfilm by itself is, at best, equivocal in placing the time of the second shot.
« Last Edit: Today at 05:05:52 AM by Andrew Mason »