Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Users Currently Browsing This Topic:
0 Members

Author Topic: Understanding the JFK Assassination Conspiracy Cover-Up  (Read 14978 times)

Online Steve M. Galbraith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1933
Re: Understanding the JFK Assassination Conspiracy Cover-Up
« Reply #42 on: July 07, 2026, 02:33:20 PM »
Telling a witness he was wrong about his observation does not equate to pressuring him to change his story. The FBI knew the shots had not come from the GK and they told O'Donnell that. If he decided to alter his testimony, that is on him.

You don't quote Kenny O'Donnell. You quote Tip O'Neill quoting Kenny O'Donnell so we don't know how O'Donnel actually described the encounter. You are describing your impression of the impression O'Nell got from what O'Donnell said. A hearsay account hardly establishes that the FBI "pressured" O'Donnell to change his story. 

So I'll ask my question again. Why would the FBI pressure O'Donnell into changing his story.

The more fundamental question is, were any shots actually fired from the GK. There is no forensic evidence pointing to a shot from the GK. There were no eyewitness to a shot from the GK. There was an eyewitness who had a perfect view of the are behind the wooden fence when the shots were fired and he saw no one there. The only "evidence" of shots from the GK are the impressions of a group of earwitnesses who said all the shots came from the GK. They are contradicted by another group of witnesses who said all the shots came from the direction of the TSBD. The latter group is corroborated by 3 spent shell found in the sniper's nest and the murder weapon found elsewhere on the same floor. No corroboration for the earwitnesses who thought the shots came from the GK. That includes Kenny O'Donnell.

Ken O'Donnell denied the allegations that he changed his testimony under pressure from anyone. He told the Chicago Tribune in an interview that they were "an absolute, outright lie." And Dave Powers, also quoted by O'Neill, denied the story as well.

I'll be lazy here and quote Wikipedia on this:

"In their memoir of Kennedy, Johnny, We Hardly Knew Ye, both O'Donnell and David Powers reported hearing only three shots and did not offer any speculation as to their origin.[12] According to a June 15, 1975 report in the Chicago Tribune, an unnamed "Central Intelligence Agency liaison man" told Congressmen that O'Donnell and David Powers had initially told assassination investigators that the shots that struck Kennedy came from a location other than the Texas School Book Depository, but that the two men were convinced, reportedly by FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover or his main aides, to alter their accounts to the Warren Commission to avoid the possibility of revealing the CIA's plots to kill Fidel Castro which might result in an international incident.[12] During a telephone interview, O'Donnell said he testified truthfully and called the allegations "an absolute, outright lie."[12] In his 1987 autobiography Man of the House, former House Speaker Tip O'Neill wrote that he had dinner with O'Donnell and Powers in 1968, and that both men indicated that two shots were fired from behind the fence on the grassy knoll at Dealey Plaza.[13] According to O'Neill, he pointed out to O'Donnell that he gave different information to the Warren Commission, and O'Donnell replied: "I told the FBI what I had heard, but they said it couldn't have happened that way and that I must have been imagining things. So I testified the way they wanted me to. I just didn't want to stir up any more pain and trouble for the family."[13] However, Dave Powers denied such conversation and claim occurred and criticized his autobiography.[14]

Again, O'Neill's allegations were denied by both men.

See here: https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=lQhIAAAAIBAJ&sjid=TQANAAAAIBAJ&pg=1934%2C3948488&hl=en

This is another example of how Michael Griffith uncritically accepts information that supports his pre-determined conspiracy view. And it doesn't matter whether it contradicts other claims he believes. Remember again he believes in the acoustics evidence that concluded three shots were fired from the TSBD and another shot came from behind the fence. But he quotes allegations that O'Donnell said the shots came from in front of the limo. That is, of course, completely at odds with the acoustics analysis. But he doesn't care.





Online John Corbett

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1738
Re: Understanding the JFK Assassination Conspiracy Cover-Up
« Reply #43 on: July 07, 2026, 02:41:27 PM »
Ken O'Donnell denied the allegations that he changed his testimony under pressure from anyone. He told the Chicago Tribune in an interview that they were "an absolute, outright lie." And Dave Powers, also quoted by O'Neill, denied the story as well.

I'll be lazy here and quote Wikipedia on this:

"In their memoir of Kennedy, Johnny, We Hardly Knew Ye, both O'Donnell and David Powers reported hearing only three shots and did not offer any speculation as to their origin.[12] According to a June 15, 1975 report in the Chicago Tribune, an unnamed "Central Intelligence Agency liaison man" told Congressmen that O'Donnell and David Powers had initially told assassination investigators that the shots that struck Kennedy came from a location other than the Texas School Book Depository, but that the two men were convinced, reportedly by FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover or his main aides, to alter their accounts to the Warren Commission to avoid the possibility of revealing the CIA's plots to kill Fidel Castro which might result in an international incident.[12] During a telephone interview, O'Donnell said he testified truthfully and called the allegations "an absolute, outright lie."[12] In his 1987 autobiography Man of the House, former House Speaker Tip O'Neill wrote that he had dinner with O'Donnell and Powers in 1968, and that both men indicated that two shots were fired from behind the fence on the grassy knoll at Dealey Plaza.[13] According to O'Neill, he pointed out to O'Donnell that he gave different information to the Warren Commission, and O'Donnell replied: "I told the FBI what I had heard, but they said it couldn't have happened that way and that I must have been imagining things. So I testified the way they wanted me to. I just didn't want to stir up any more pain and trouble for the family."[13] However, Dave Powers denied such conversation and claim occurred and criticized his autobiography.[14]

Again, O'Neill's allegations were denied by both men.

See here: https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=lQhIAAAAIBAJ&sjid=TQANAAAAIBAJ&pg=1934%2C3948488&hl=en

This is another example of how Michael Griffith uncritically accepts information that supports his pre-determined conspiracy view. And it doesn't matter whether it contradicts other claims he believes. Remember again he believes in the acoustics evidence that concluded three shots were fired from the TSBD and another shot came from behind the fence. But he quotes allegations that O'Donnell said the shots came from in front of the limo. That is, of course, completely at odds with the acoustics analysis. But he doesn't care.

Thanks for the info. As long as I've been at this, I should know better than to simply accept these claims made by the CTs at face value. In fairness to MTG, it appears this lie originated with O'Neill although from the passage he quoted, it doesn't sound like he was saying the FBI pressured O'Donnell into changing his story. It appears MTG embellished O'Neill's words a bit.

Online Steve M. Galbraith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1933
Re: Understanding the JFK Assassination Conspiracy Cover-Up
« Reply #44 on: July 07, 2026, 02:49:47 PM »
Thanks for the info. As long as I've been at this, I should know better than to simply accept these claims made by the CTs at face value. In fairness to MTG, it appears this lie originated with O'Neill although from the passage he quoted, it doesn't sound like he was saying the FBI pressured O'Donnell into changing his story. It appears MTG embellished O'Neill's words a bit.
The O'Neill book came out in 1987 while the original claim that O'Donnell altered his testimony was first made in 1975. The Chicago Tribune story that quotes him denying he changed his testimony goes over this in greater detail. And Dave Powers, who was alive in 1987 when the book came out, also denied the story that he and O'Donnell told O'Neill they had changed their testimony.

In any case, according to several people quoted in the book O'Neill simply flat out made things up. He's simply not a credible source on this issue.

Bud called these "conspiracy trading cards", allegations that they continually pass around and repeat. It doesn't matter how many times you disprove them they continue to trade them around.

Here's the O'Neill account (he says it was in 1968) from his book (again, Powers denied the story, O'Donnell had died in 1977):

« Last Edit: July 07, 2026, 05:42:27 PM by Steve M. Galbraith »

Online John Corbett

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1738
Re: Understanding the JFK Assassination Conspiracy Cover-Up
« Reply #45 on: July 07, 2026, 09:25:58 PM »
The O'Neill book came out in 1987 while the original claim that O'Donnell altered his testimony was first made in 1975. The Chicago Tribune story that quotes him denying he changed his testimony goes over this in greater detail. And Dave Powers, who was alive in 1987 when the book came out, also denied the story that he and O'Donnell told O'Neill they had changed their testimony.

In any case, according to several people quoted in the book O'Neill simply flat out made things up. He's simply not a credible source on this issue.

Bud called these "conspiracy trading cards", allegations that they continually pass around and repeat. It doesn't matter how many times you disprove them they continue to trade them around.


When you say Bud, I'm guessing you are referring to Bud from alt.assassination.jfk. I hadn't heard from Bud since the McAdams forum shutdown. I hope he's doing well.

I always appreciated Bud's take on whatever issue he was talking about, even the few times I would disagree with him.

Online Michael T. Griffith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1753
    • JFK Assassination Website
Re: Understanding the JFK Assassination Conspiracy Cover-Up
« Reply #46 on: Yesterday at 03:18:59 PM »
MG: Key and revealing information about the cover-up surfaced when the ARRB interviewed autopsy x-ray technician Jerrol Custer. Custer's testimony proves that the plotters were already exploring ways to produce altered skull x-rays the day after the autopsy.

Custer told the ARRB that the morning after the assassination, he was called into the radiology suite by Dr. John Ebersole, the autopsy radiologist, and was told to tape some metal fragments to skull bones and x-ray them. Custer x-rayed them with the same machine, at the same distance, that he used the night before during the autopsy. Custer stated that Ebersole said these x-rays would be used to make a bust of JFK. Custer added that Dr. Ebersole suggested that he “should forget” everything he was about to see:

A: The next morning I took them.

Q: And where did you take those X-rays?

A: In the main department, in a private room, with a portable X-ray unit.

Q: Was it the same x-ray unit that was used m to take the autopsy -

A: Yes, sir. The same distance.
 
Q: And what was the purpose of taking these x-rays?

A: I was told by Dr. Ebersole that they were to be taken to make measurements, to make a bust of President Kennedy.

Q: What did you do when you took the x-rays? What were the procedures? How did you go about taking them?

A: All I did was place the bone fragments on the film, and I made different exposures at different distances.

Q: Did Dr. Ebersole say anything to you about metal fragments?

A: He gave me three or four different metal fragments, varying in size. And he asked me to tape them to the bones. . . .

Q: Let me try asking you one question, just to make sure that the record is clear on this. Did Dr. Ebersole ask you to tape the metal fragments to the bone after he had returned from the White House? Are you able to say with certainty?

A: Absolutely. As soon as he walked in, that’s the first thing he said. “I want these bone fragments x-rayed with metal fragments taped”. . . .

Q: Is there any question in your mind whether you, in fact, taped metal fragments to the bones?

A: Absolutely no question at all in my mind. . . .

Q: Did Dr. Ebersole ever subsequently explain to you the purpose for taping metal fragments to the bones to be -

A: No, he didn’t. He just stated to me, when he brought the film -- the bone fragments and the metal fragments to me, that he had just come back from the White House after being debriefed.

Q: And what did he say about that debriefing?

A: WelI, he just said that he was debriefed by the Secret Service. And that was it. High-ranking people had talked to him. And he suggested to me that everything that I see from now on, I should forget. (“Deposition of Jerrol Francis Custer,” ARRB, Transcript of Proceedings, October 28, 1997, pp. 143-146)

Obviously, taping bullet fragments to skull bones and then x-raying the bones had nothing to do with making a bust of JFK. Ultimately, the plotters opted not to use these x-rays because they realized that the x-rays could be altered via darkroom techniques that would be virtually impossible to detect at the time.

Scientific proof of the alteration was not discovered until Dr. David Mantik performed optical density (OD) measurements on the skull x-rays in the 1990s. Dr. Mantik discovered that the 6.5 mm object is not metallic and that the white patch in the lower rear parietal-occipital area is a physical impossibility for a human skull.

Dr. Mantik discovered that the 6.5 mm object was ghosted over a somewhat smaller genuine bullet fragment and a tiny bullet fragment. The largest of the two fragments is an irregular and jagged fragment measuring 2.0 mm at its narrowest point and 2.5 mm at its widest point, and measuring right around 6.3 mm in height. The tiny fragment is roughly circular and has a diameter of about 0.25 mm.

The density of these two genuine metal fragments is far less than the impossibly density of the 6.5 mm object as established by its OD measurements. The density of the two fragments is consistent with the density of metal fragments, whereas the 6.5 mm object's density is a physical impossibility if the object is metallic, proving that it is a ghosted image.

Dr. Mantik was even able to duplicate how the 6.5 mm object was added to the AP skull x-ray. The 6.5 mm object does not appear on the lateral skull x-rays, further absolute proof that the object is not metallic.

BTW, when Dr. Mantik read Custer’s ARRB testimony, he contacted Custer and was able to interview him at length. Custer reaffirmed his ARRB testimony in every detail.


JC: It's truly amazing what you accept as proof. 30 year old recollections from an x-ray technician don't prove anything.

Perhaps another one of your ailments is a poor memory, but most people can remember the essentials of important events they experienced decades earlier. Custer expressly said he had absolutely no doubt about his recollection of this incident.

It is clear that the incident with Dr. Ebersole still bothered Custer, and understandably so. When a senior officer who is the chief of radiation therapy, the training director for nuclear medicine, and the director of the Radiation Exposure Evaluation Laboratory at your hospital tells you to perform the very odd action of taping bullet fragments onto skull bones and x-raying them, then gives you the transparently phony excuse that this is being done for a bust of JFK, and then tells you that you should forget everything you're about to see--that's gonna get burned into your memory.

Even if true, the conclusions you draw from his statement are highly illogical. You assume every unexplained event has sinister connotations.

Really? Then let's hear your innocent explanation for why senior White House officials sent Ebersole back to the hospital with orders to have x-rays made of bullet fragments taped to skull bones. Let's hear it.

I notice you at least had enough sense not to parrot the farcical "JFK bust" explanation. I guess you realized that even a high school student would understand that x-rays of bullet fragments taped to pieces of skull would have been worthless for making a bust of JFK. The White House press office alone had literally hundreds of high-quality photos of JFK's head that could have been used to make a bust of him.

My conclusions about this incident are not the least bit "highly illogical." The Ebersole-Custer incident was clearly an early attempt by high officials to create composite x-rays that would show images not found on the original x-rays. The only reason they didn't use the fraudulent Ebersole skull x-rays was that they realized they could alter the autopsy skull x-rays with darkroom techniques.

We know the autopsy skull x-rays are altered copies of the originals from the following facts:

(1) The hard scientific evidence of multiple and independent optical-density (OD) measurements of the x-rays.

(2) The hard physical evidence that the x-ray film of the lateral neck x-ray has no emulsion missing from the side of the film in the area where the T-shaped symbol was etched into the x-ray, which is a physical impossibility unless the x-ray is a copy.

(3) The fact that the 6.5 mm object has been positively determined to be a ghosted image (both by high-magnification analysis and by independent OD measurements, not to mention that Dr. Mantik was able to duplicate how the object's image was added to the AP x-ray, and not to mention that forensic science tells us that an FMJ bullet will never "shear off" a fragment into the outer table of the skull as it penetrates the skull, especially not from the bottom side of the bullet when it's striking the skull at a downward angle of 15 degrees).

(4) The fact that the impossibly dense white patch on the lateral x-rays is not seen on the AP x-ray, a physical impossibility if the x-rays are pristine originals.

(5) The fact that the impossible white patch is not seen on JFK's pre-mortem skull x-rays.

(6) The fact that any area resembling the impossible white patch did not appear on any of the skull x-rays that Dr. Mantik and Dr. DeSalles used as controls.

I quote from my book A Comforting Lie: The Myth That a Lone Gunman Killed President Kennedy:

Doug Horne, a former chief analyst for the ARRB, provides more detail on the historic research on the white patch:

As a scientific “control,” Mantik and his research partner Dr. Doug DeSalles took OD measurements of lateral skull x-rays from nine coroner’s cases to obtain a range of numerical measurements between the brightest and darkest areas on these skull x-rays. In general, the brightest areas of the nine coroner’s cases transmitted about two or three times as much light as the darkest areas.

Furthermore, subjective, visual examination of the lateral x-rays of these nine skulls did not reveal the extreme contrast between very bright and very dark areas that is seen in the JFK lateral skull x-rays. The subjective visual evidence was consistent with the OD measurements, and vice-a-versa.

On the right lateral JFK skull x-ray, Dr. Mantik took many OD measurements of two specific areas. The optical density measurements for one extremely bright area located anatomically behind the ear, which he labeled “P” (for posterior) in a diagram at his lectures [i.e., the white patch], was compared with the optical density measurements for a very dark area in the front of the cranium [skull] labeled “F” (for front).

Amazingly, on the right JFK lateral skull x-ray, OD measurements revealed that area “P” (in the rear of the skull behind the ear) transmitted about 1100 times more light than area “F” (in the forward part of the skull which appears so dark in the x-ray image). That’s worth repeating: The “great white area” in the rear of the skull behind the ear in the JFK right lateral skull x-ray transmitted about1100 times more light than the dark area in the front of the cranium, whereas on the “control” x-rays the ratio was only about 2 or 3 to 1 between the brightest area and the darkest area on each lateral x-ray. (205:546)


Horne further notes that on four of the nine control lateral skull x-rays, the front part of the skull was brighter than the rear part of the skull (205:546 n 28). (A Comforting Lie, pp. 275-276)

Online Brian Doyle

  • Subscriber
  • *
  • Posts: 39
Understanding the JFK Assassination Conspiracy Cover-Up
« Reply #47 on: Yesterday at 03:52:23 PM »

   Sarah Stanton is very lucky she didn't end up having one of those suspicious deaths that others like her had...

From what her grand daughter told me we have to assume Sarah told FBI the same thing that she told her relatives at gatherings...That she met Lee Harvey Oswald on the 2nd Floor staircase landing outside the 2nd Floor Lunch Room on her way down to see the motorcade...Oswald was waiting for Mrs Reid to clear out the 2nd Floor Lunch Room in order to have a safe place to hide him while he was being set-up on the 6th Floor...Stanton asked Oswald if he was going down to watch the motorcade...Oswald responded "No, I'm going back in to the Break Room"...That Break Room was the 2nd Floor Lunch Room that Carolyn Arnold would see Oswald eating lunch in alone shortly after...Stanton's grand daughter Wanda told me that Sarah was conservative and authority-obeying and would not challenge an institution like the FBI...She also told me that Sarah was embarrassed about her obesity and avoided public exposure...So when FBI dealt with this dangerous threat to expose the conspiracy by lying and entering that Stanton did not see Oswald that day Stanton would be unlikely to publicly challenge it and did not...She probably never even read that altered statement...Seeing what got witnesses killed and why, Stanton is very lucky she did not experience one of the strange deaths many witnesses like herself experienced...

This is being kept off The Education Forum for what reason again???
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 03:59:18 PM by Brian Doyle »

Online John Corbett

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1738
Re: Understanding the JFK Assassination Conspiracy Cover-Up
« Reply #48 on: Yesterday at 04:01:14 PM »
Perhaps another one of your ailments is a poor memory, but most people can remember the essentials of important events they experienced decades earlier. Custer expressly said he had absolutely no doubt about his recollection of this incident.

It is clear that the incident with Dr. Ebersole still bothered Custer, and understandably so. When a senior officer who is the chief of radiation therapy, the training director for nuclear medicine, and the director of the Radiation Exposure Evaluation Laboratory at your hospital tells you to perform the very odd action of taping bullet fragments onto skull bones and x-raying them, then gives you the transparently phony excuse that this is being done for a bust of JFK, and then tells you that you should forget everything you're about to see--that's gonna get burned into your memory.

So now you are pretending to be a memory expert.
Quote

Really? Then let's hear your innocent explanation for why senior White House officials sent Ebersole back to the hospital with orders to have x-rays made of bullet fragments taped to skull bones. Let's hear it.

I don't know what the explanation is but I'm smart enough not to assume an answer to an unknown because I don't know what the answer is.
Quote

I notice you at least had enough sense not to parrot the farcical "JFK bust" explanation. I guess you realized that even a high school student would understand that x-rays of bullet fragments taped to pieces of skull would have been worthless for making a bust of JFK. The White House press office alone had literally hundreds of high-quality photos of JFK's head that could have been used to make a bust of him.

My conclusions about this incident are not the least bit "highly illogical." The Ebersole-Custer incident was clearly an early attempt by high officials to create composite x-rays that would show images not found on the original x-rays. The only reason they didn't use the fraudulent Ebersole skull x-rays was that they realized they could alter the autopsy skull x-rays with darkroom techniques.


It's clear to people with illogical minds and active imaginations.
Quote

We know the autopsy skull x-rays are altered copies of the originals from the following facts:

Not "we". It's "you". You seem to know a lot of things that aren't true.
Quote

(1) The hard scientific evidence of multiple and independent optical-density (OD) measurements of the x-rays.

(2) The hard physical evidence that the x-ray film of the lateral neck x-ray has no emulsion missing from the side of the film in the area where the T-shaped symbol was etched into the x-ray, which is a physical impossibility unless the x-ray is a copy.

(3) The fact that the 6.5 mm object has been positively determined to be a ghosted image (both by high-magnification analysis and by independent OD measurements, not to mention that Dr. Mantik was able to duplicate how the object's image was added to the AP x-ray, and not to mention that forensic science tells us that an FMJ bullet will never "shear off" a fragment into the outer table of the skull as it penetrates the skull, especially not from the bottom side of the bullet when it's striking the skull at a downward angle of 15 degrees).

(4) The fact that the impossibly dense white patch on the lateral x-rays is not seen on the AP x-ray, a physical impossibility if the x-rays are pristine originals.

(5) The fact that the impossible white patch is not seen on JFK's pre-mortem skull x-rays.

(6) The fact that any area resembling the impossible white patch did not appear on any of the skull x-rays that Dr. Mantik and Dr. DeSalles used as controls.

This is MTG playing doctor again. This time a radiologist.
Quote

I quote from my book A Comforting Lie: The Myth That a Lone Gunman Killed President Kennedy:

Oh, goody. You're quoting from your own book to support your argument.

I did an AI search and found your book is #1,989,139 on Amazon's list of best sellers. I'd love to know what #1,989,139 is.
Quote

Doug Horne, a former chief analyst for the ARRB, provides more detail on the historic research on the white patch:

You're citing Doug Horne? A guy with zero medical training, i.e. another amateur like you.
Quote

As a scientific “control,” Mantik and his research partner Dr. Doug DeSalles took OD measurements of lateral skull x-rays from nine coroner’s cases to obtain a range of numerical measurements between the brightest and darkest areas on these skull x-rays. In general, the brightest areas of the nine coroner’s cases transmitted about two or three times as much light as the darkest areas.

Furthermore, subjective, visual examination of the lateral x-rays of these nine skulls did not reveal the extreme contrast between very bright and very dark areas that is seen in the JFK lateral skull x-rays. The subjective visual evidence was consistent with the OD measurements, and vice-a-versa.

On the right lateral JFK skull x-ray, Dr. Mantik took many OD measurements of two specific areas. The optical density measurements for one extremely bright area located anatomically behind the ear, which he labeled “P” (for posterior) in a diagram at his lectures [i.e., the white patch], was compared with the optical density measurements for a very dark area in the front of the cranium [skull] labeled “F” (for front).

Amazingly, on the right JFK lateral skull x-ray, OD measurements revealed that area “P” (in the rear of the skull behind the ear) transmitted about 1100 times more light than area “F” (in the forward part of the skull which appears so dark in the x-ray image). That’s worth repeating: The “great white area” in the rear of the skull behind the ear in the JFK right lateral skull x-ray transmitted about1100 times more light than the dark area in the front of the cranium, whereas on the “control” x-rays the ratio was only about 2 or 3 to 1 between the brightest area and the darkest area on each lateral x-ray. (205:546)


Horne further notes that on four of the nine control lateral skull x-rays, the front part of the skull was brighter than the rear part of the skull (205:546 n 28). (A Comforting Lie, pp. 275-276)


You've enlisted a radiation oncologist and a Family Medicine Specialist to analyze forensic medical evidence. What's the matter? Couldn't you find a gynecologist to weigh in on the matter?
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 04:02:27 PM by John Corbett »