CIA Wallets at Tenth and Patton

[Martin Weidmann]

The Weidmann method:

1.) Make unsupported assertion.

2.) Demand that the other guy find evidence for said unsupported assertion

3.) Whine that the other guy is "playing games"

4.) When the other guy points out the games you play, whine some more.

 

And here we go, round and round again...

Still no explanation of what is wrong with the case I have presented. Only a waste of time...

[Mitch Todd]

And here we go, round and round again...

Still no explanation of what is wrong with the case I have presented. Only a waste of time...

You haven't actually made a case. That's my point. You've just made some unsupported assertions, then demanded that I investigate them for you. 

[Martin Weidmann]

You haven't actually made a case. That's my point. You've just made some unsupported assertions, then demanded that I investigate them for you.

Again the same BS I've become accustomed to from you.

I'll give this one more try; Bentley, Carroll, Hill and Walker brought Oswald to the homicide bureau at City Hall and left him there with some uniformed officers. They went to the personnel office where some officers initialed the S & W revolver and a gray jacket. According to Hill, in his WC testimony, this happened at around 4:00 PM but in his report to Chief Curry of 3 December 1963 he gave the time as 3:15 PM.

Paul Bentley, wrote in his report to Chief Curry of 2 December 1963: "On the way to City Hall I removed the suspect's wallet and obtained his name. Not a word about finding a Hidell ID! He also wrote: Sgt. Jerry Hill had the S&W 38 cal pistol with six (6) shells in his possession on the way to the City Hall. This pistol was initialed by me and turned over to Lt. Baker and Captain Fritz by Sgt. Hill. I turned his identification over to Lt. Baker. I then went to Westbrook's Office to make a report of the arrest.

The information of Hill and Bentley combined justifies IMO the conclusion that the revolver and Oswald's identification were turned over to Lt. Baker at some time after 3:15 PM which matches with 3:25 PM time on the receipt of the evidence room, where the wallet, the revolver and several personal items of Oswald were submitted by traffic officer Bardin.

If you wish to argue that Bentley turned in the wallet/identification to Lt Baker earlier, you will not find any evidence for that. 

But even if Bentley did hand in the wallet/identification to Lt. Baker just after leaving Oswald with the uniformed officers at the Homicide Bureau it still does explain how C.T. Walker could claim that he had the Hidell identification and it most certainly doesn't explain how Detective Guy Rose was given a wallet in which he found the Hidell ID. Rose arrived at City Hall just after Oswald was brought in and when he got to the Homicide Bureau an unidentified person gave him a wallet and said it belonged to Oswald.

All I said was;

I don't see how the wallet in both stories could be the same one. So, what's a possible explanation? If we disregard the obvious contradiction of the revolver's chain of custody, and only focus on the wallet; it needs to be considered that C.T. Walker was at the Tippit crime scene. The only way I can fit Bentley's wallet story and Walker's wallet story in one narrative is by concluding that Bentley did in fact take a wallet from Oswald, which did not contain the Hidell ID, and kept it until turning it over to Lt Baker at around 4:00 PM, and Walker had the wallet found at the Tippit scene which he brought into City Hall where it was given to Guy Rose and subsequently was submitted to the evidence bureau at 3:35 PM.

If anybody can come with with another plausible explanation to square the two stories, I would love to hear it!

And so far no LN has come up with an answer and all I have gotten from you is denial.

[John Corbett]

And so far no LN has come up with an answer and all I have gotten from you is denial.

No one has an obligation to disprove what you have never proven, only asserted.

[Martin Weidmann]

No one has an obligation to disprove what you have never proven, only asserted.

Classic LN 

I asked a question and clowns like you can't come up with a plausible answer. If you could, you would have provided it, if only for the purpose to point out an error made by one of those evil CTs!

At the same time you and people like you make up all sorts of BS claims, based on no and/or misrepresented evidence, which you then expect to be disproven. And you don't even see understand the contradiction!

So, while it is true that nobody has an obligation to disprove anything (which also applies to your bogus claims), I'll nevertheless will consider the lack of an answer as an admission of your inability to provide a plausible explanation for the clear discrepancy in the factual evidence.

[Mitch Todd]

Again the same BS I've become accustomed to from you.

I'll give this one more try; Bentley, Carroll, Hill and Walker brought Oswald to the homicide bureau at City Hall and left him there with some uniformed officers. They went to the personnel office where some officers initialed the S & W revolver and a gray jacket. According to Hill, in his WC testimony, this happened at around 4:00 PM but in his report to Chief Curry of 3 December 1963 he gave the time as 3:15 PM.

Paul Bentley, wrote in his report to Chief Curry of 2 December 1963: "On the way to City Hall I removed the suspect's wallet and obtained his name. Not a word about finding a Hidell ID! He also wrote: Sgt. Jerry Hill had the S&W 38 cal pistol with six (6) shells in his possession on the way to the City Hall. This pistol was initialed by me and turned over to Lt. Baker and Captain Fritz by Sgt. Hill. I turned his identification over to Lt. Baker. I then went to Westbrook's Office to make a report of the arrest.

The information of Hill and Bentley combined justifies IMO the conclusion that the revolver and Oswald's identification were turned over to Lt. Baker at some time after 3:15 PM which matches with 3:25 PM time on the receipt of the evidence room, where the wallet, the revolver and several personal items of Oswald were submitted by traffic officer Bardin.

If you wish to argue that Bentley turned in the wallet/identification to Lt Baker earlier, you will not find any evidence for that. 

But even if Bentley did hand in the wallet/identification to Lt. Baker just after leaving Oswald with the uniformed officers at the Homicide Bureau it still does explain how C.T. Walker could claim that he had the Hidell identification and it most certainly doesn't explain how Detective Guy Rose was given a wallet in which he found the Hidell ID. Rose arrived at City Hall just after Oswald was brought in and when he got to the Homicide Bureau an unidentified person gave him a wallet and said it belonged to Oswald.

All I said was;

And so far no LN has come up with an answer and all I have gotten from you is denial.

So, finally.

Let's look at this statement from Bentley's report:

Sgt. Jerry Hill had the S&W 38 cal pistol with six (6) shells in his possession on the way to the City Hall. This pistol was initialed by me and turned over to Lt. Baker and Captain Fritz by Sgt. Hill. I turned his identification over to Lt. Baker. I then went to Westbrook's Office to make a report of the arrest.

There's nothing at all about anything happening at 3:35PM nor at 4:00PM.

Bentley says that he left the Homicide Bureau and went to Westbrook's office --that is, the Personnel division-- to write reports. Hill and Carrol also talk about this. The migration of the arresting party happened in the 2-o'clock hour, so the turnover of the wallet in the Homicide department had to have occurred long before you want to believe.
 

[Martin Weidmann]

So, finally.

Let's look at this statement from Bentley's report:

Sgt. Jerry Hill had the S&W 38 cal pistol with six (6) shells in his possession on the way to the City Hall. This pistol was initialed by me and turned over to Lt. Baker and Captain Fritz by Sgt. Hill. I turned his identification over to Lt. Baker. I then went to Westbrook's Office to make a report of the arrest.

There's nothing at all about anything happening at 3:35PM nor at 4:00PM.

Bentley says that he left the Homicide Bureau and went to Westbrook's office --that is, the Personnel division-- to write reports. Hill and Carrol also talk about this. The migration of the arresting party happened in the 2-o'clock hour, so the turnover of the wallet in the Homicide department had to have occurred long before you want to believe.

There's nothing at all about anything happening at 3:35PM nor at 4:00PM.

That's exactly what I figured you would say. It isn't written verbatim in Bentley's statement, so let's just ignore the combined statements of Hill and Bentley and just claim nothing happened at 3:35 PM or later.

Bentley says that he left the Homicide Bureau and went to Westbrook's office --that is, the Personnel division-- to write reports. Hill and Carrol also talk about this. The migration of the arresting party happened in the 2-o'clock hour, so the turnover of the wallet in the Homicide department had to have occurred long before you want to believe.

So now you want to consider the combined statements of the officers? Not only is it dishonest, it's also a massive misrepresentation. And of course not to mention that there is no record of a wallet being handed over to Lt Baker at 2:00 PM.
All you are doing is presenting a self-serving conclusion based on hot air that doesn't even answer my two basic questions.

Bentley says that he left the Homicide Bureau and went to Westbrook's office --that is, the Personnel division-- to write reports.

No, he did not say that at all. He said (I'm paraphrasing) that he initialed the S & W revolver before it was turned over the Lt Baker and he did the same with Oswald's identification, before he went to Westbrook's office to write his report.
Gerald Hill tells us in his report this happend at approx 3:15 PM.

The sequence of events is a simple one; Carroll, Hill, Walker and Bentley bring Oswald to the Homicide bureau, where they leave him with uniformed officers. They then went to the personnel office (where a number of officers had gathered) where the revolver was initialed and handed over to Lt Baker along with the wallet. Even if this had only taken 10 minutes after leaving Oswald at the Homicide Bureau, you still have a wallet problem, because Guy Rose arrived at the Homicide Bureau just after Oswald had been brought in and when he got there he was given a wallet in which he found the Hidell ID.

So, how does a wallet being held either by Bentley or Baker, find it's way in less than a minute or two to Guy Rose and why did Walker have the Hidell ID?