CIA Wallets at Tenth and Patton

[Michael Capasse]

Mr. BELIN. Was he asked where he lived?
Mr. HILL. That was the second question that was asked the suspect, and he didn't answer it, either.
About the time I got through with the radio transmission, I asked Paul Bentley, "Why don't you see if he has any identification."
Paul was sitting sort of sideways in the seat, and with his right hand he reached down and felt of the suspect's left hip pocket and said, "Yes, he has a billfold," and took it out.
I never did have the billfold in my possession, but the name Lee Oswald was called out by Bentley from the back seat, and said this identification, I believe, was on the library card.
And he also made the statement that there was some more identification in this other name which I don't remember, but it was the same name that later came in the paper that he bought the gun under.

Mr. BELIN. After you got down there, what did you do with him?
Mr. WALKER. We took him up the homicide and robbery bureau, and we went back there, and one of the detectives said put him In this room. I put him in the room, and he said, "Let the uniform officers stay with him." And I went inside, and Oswald sat down, and he was handcuffed with his hands behind him. I sat down there, and I had his pistol, and he had a card in there with a picture of him and the name A. J. Hidell on it.

Mr. BELIN. After you got down there, what did you do with him?
Mr. WALKER. We took him up the homicide and robbery bureau, and we went back there, and one of the detectives said put him In this room. I put him in the room, and he said, "Let the uniform officers stay with him." And I went inside, and Oswald sat down, and he was handcuffed with his hands behind him. I sat down there, and I had his pistol, and he had a card in there with a picture of him and the name A. J. Hidell on it.

Mr. BALL. Alek Hidell?
Mr. LEAVELLE. Yes; and he asked him if he knew Alek Hidell; said he didn't know if he ever heard of the name. He never heard of that and asked him several questions along that line and then after he had denied all knowledge of Alek Hidell, Mr. Kelley asked him, said "Well, isn't it a fact when you were arrested you had an identification card with his name on it in your possession."
He kind of grunted, said "Yes, that's right" and he said "How do you explain that?" And, as best my knowledge. he said "I don't explain it."

Mr. BALL. Another thing, that day, at sometime during the 22d when you questioned Oswald, didn't you ask him about this card he had in his pocket with the name Alek Hidell?
Mr. FRITZ. I did; yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. What did you ask him about that?
Mr. FRITZ. I believe he had three of those cards if I remember correctly, and he told me that was the name that he picked up in New Orleans that he had used sometimes. One of the cards looked like it might have been altered a little bit and one of them I believe was the Fair Play for Cuba and one looked like a social security card or something.

Mr. STERN - What were they, and what were the responses, if you recall?
Mr. BOOKHOUT - One specific question was with regard to the selective service card in the possession of Oswald bearing a photograph of Oswald and the name Alek James Hidell. Oswald admitted he carried this selective service card, but declined to state that he wrote the signature of Alek J. Hidell appearing on same. Further declined to state the purpose of carrying same, and---or any use he made of same.

Mr. HOLMES....
Then Captain Fritz interrupted and said, "Well, what about this card we got out of your billfold? This draft registration card, he called it, where it showed A. J. Hidell."
"Well, that is the only time that I recall he kind of flared up and he said, "Now, I have told you all I am going to tell you about that card in my billfold." He said, "You have the card yourself, and you know as much about it as I do." And he showed a little anger. Really the only time that he flared up.

Mr. ROSE. Well, the first thing I asked him was what his name was and he told me it was Hidell.
Mr. BALL. Did he tell you it was Hidell?
Mr. ROSE. Yes; he did.
Mr. BALL. He didn't tell you it was Oswald?
Mr. ROSE. No; he didn't, not right then--he did later. In a minute--I found two cards--I found a card that said "A. Hidell." And I found another card that said "Lee Oswald" on it, and I asked him which of the two was his correct name. He wouldn't tell me at the time, he just said, "You find out." And then in just a few minutes Captain Fritz came in and he told me to get two men and go to Irving and search his house.
Mr. BALL. Now, when he first came in there--you said that he said his name was "Hidell"?
Mr. ROSE. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Was that before you saw the two cards?
Mr. ROSE. Yes; it was.
Mr. BALL. Did he give you his first name?
Mr. ROSE. He just said "Hidell"; I remember he just gave me the last name of "Hidell".
Mr. BALL. And then you found two or three cards on him?
Mr. ROSE. Yes; we did.
Mr. BALL. Did you search him?
Mr. ROSE. He had already been searched and someone had his billfold. I don't know whether it was the patrolman who brought him in that had it or not.

JohnM

BLAH! BLAH! BLAH! - Same old regurgitation.  Not one thing that addresses Barrett.
“They said they took the wallet out of his pocket in the car? That’s so much hogwash. That wallet was in (Captain) Westbrook’s hand.”

[John Mytton]

BLAH! BLAH! BLAH! - Same old regurgitation.  Not one thing that addresses Barrett.
“They said they took the wallet out of his pocket in the car? That’s so much hogwash. That wallet was in (Captain) Westbrook’s hand.”

Gee Whiz, Capasse, a FIFTY year old memory is oh so reliable, Not!
But a plethora of fresh memories from a ton of eyewitnesses is in your opinion "BLAH! BLAH! BLAH!', this is why you keep on failing.

At the time, recovering the Murder Suspect's Identification at the Tippit crime scene would be the most powerful evidence of all, but Westbrook says Jack Crap about the suspects Wallet. That's a spicy meatball, you got there!





BTW, you do realize that discovering Oswald's wallet at the Tippit crime scene makes Oswald as guilty as Hell, are you sure you want to go down that path? 

JohnM

[Michael Capasse]

At the time, recovering the Murder Suspect's Identification at the Tippit crime scene would be the most powerful evidence of all, but Westbrook says Jack Crap about the suspects Wallet.

JohnM

  So what? - They didn't ask him.

[Richard Smith]

Interesting that you ignored the fact that Barrett said it was a wallet.

why the folks who are involved in framing Oswald suppress a highly incriminating piece of evidence left at the murder scene?

You keep repeating this BS when you've already been told that nobody claims that a wallet found at a murder scene was suppressed.

If a wallet was suppressed it was the one taken from Oswald in the car by Bentley.

Think about how idiotic it is to suggest that the investigators found or planted Oswald's wallet at the Tippit murder scene but then decided for some inexplicable reason to claim it was found on his person.  Wow.  Mind blowing.  Can you understand that a wallet left at the murder scene would be highly incriminating in linking the owner of the wallet to that crime?  And the kicker is that these are the very same investigators you otherwise imply are involved in a conspiracy to frame Oswald.  Here, however, you suggest they are doing exactly the opposite by covering up the discovery of his wallet at the murder scene.

[Lance Payette]

That's a spicy meatball, you got there!

Lest we forget.

57 years after this ad ran, I still say "meesy micey ballsy."

[Martin Weidmann]

Mr. BELIN. Was he asked where he lived?
Mr. HILL. That was the second question that was asked the suspect, and he didn't answer it, either.
About the time I got through with the radio transmission, I asked Paul Bentley, "Why don't you see if he has any identification."
Paul was sitting sort of sideways in the seat, and with his right hand he reached down and felt of the suspect's left hip pocket and said, "Yes, he has a billfold," and took it out.
I never did have the billfold in my possession, but the name Lee Oswald was called out by Bentley from the back seat, and said this identification, I believe, was on the library card.
And he also made the statement that there was some more identification in this other name which I don't remember, but it was the same name that later came in the paper that he bought the gun under.

Amazing! Hill and Bentley were sitting on either side of Oswald on the back seat of the car. Hill asks Bentley to get Oswald's wallet for the purpose of identification. Bentley called out the name Lee Oswald and then things get fuzzy for Hill. He claims Bentley made a statement about another name, but he can't remember and between 11/22/63 and his WC testimony on April 8, 1964, he does not mention this in any report. And neither did Bentley!

It's hardly credible that two officers sitting next to Oswald simply do not mention having found two different ID's on the suspect of just about their biggest case of their career. But then, Hill isn't a very reliable witness.
In his WC testimony he says that he marked the revolver at around 4:00 PM and that he had the weapon with him until he marked it.

Mr. HILL. This is a .38 caliber revolver, Smith & Wesson, with a 2" barrel that would contain six shells. It is an older gun that has been blue steeled, and has a worn wooden handle.
Mr. BELIN. Have you ever seen this gun before?
Mr. HILL. I am trying to see my mark on it to make sure, sir. I don't recall specifically where I marked it, but I did mark it, if this is the one. I don't remember where I did mark it, now.
Here it is, Hill right here, right in this crack.
Mr. BELIN. Officer, you have just pointed out a place which I will identify as a metal portion running along the butt of the gun. Can you describe it any more fully?
Mr. HILL. It would be to the inside of the pistol grip holding the gun in the air. It would begin under the trigger guard to where the last name H-i-l-1 is scratched in the metal.
Mr. BELIN. Who put that name in there?
Mr. HILL. I did.
Mr. BELIN. When did you do that?
Mr. HILL. This was done at approximately 4 p.m., the afternoon of Friday, November 22, 1963, in the personnel office of the police department.
Mr. BELIN. Did you keep that gun in your possession until you scratched your name on it?
Mr. HILL. Yes, sir; I did.


But officer Walker testified that, when Oswald was brought into the homicide and robbery bureau, he had the revolver and a card with the name Hidell on it.

Mr. BELIN. After you got down there, what did you do with him?
Mr. WALKER. We took him up the homicide and robbery bureau, and we went back there, and one of the detectives said put him In this room. I put him in the room, and he said, "Let the uniform officers stay with him." And I went inside, and Oswald sat down, and he was handcuffed with his hands behind him. I sat down there, and I had his pistol, and he had a card in there with a picture of him and the name A. J. Hidell on it.

It also does not match the fact that the S & W revolver and a black billfold were submitted to the evidence room, by officer Bardin, at 3:25 PM.

And it gets worse;

JohnM

In his report, Bentley writes "On the way to the City Hall I removed the suspect's wallet and obtained his name"

Hill told us in his testimony that Bentley called out the name Oswald, so that must be the name he obtained from the wallet.

Isn't it just remarkable that Bentley doesn't mention the Hidell name at all?

Btw, Bentley also writes that Hill had the revolver and that he marked it before the weapon and the identification was handed over to Lt Baker.


So, we have Hill claiming he had the revolved until he marked it at around 4:00 PM
Bentley says he also marked the revolver before Hill turned it over to Lt Baker
But Walker claims that he had the revolver and the identification when Oswald was brought into the homicide bureau
and there is a receipt showing that at 3:35 PM officer Bardin submitted the revolver and wallet to the evidence room.

It doesn't add up!

[Martin Weidmann]

Think about how idiotic it is to suggest that the investigators found or planted Oswald's wallet at the Tippit murder scene but then decided for some inexplicable reason to claim it was found on his person.  Wow.  Mind blowing.  Can you understand that a wallet left at the murder scene would be highly incriminating in linking the owner of the wallet to that crime?  And the kicker is that these are the very same investigators you otherwise imply are involved in a conspiracy to frame Oswald.  Here, however, you suggest they are doing exactly the opposite by covering up the discovery of his wallet at the murder scene.

Think about how idiotic it is to suggest that the investigators found or planted Oswald's wallet at the Tippit murder scene but then decided for some inexplicable reason to claim it was found on his person.

You can consider it to be idiotic as much as you want, but just about everybody who lives in the real world knows that police officers do plant and manipulate evidence. If the wallet taken from Oswald by Bentley had no or little evidentiary value but the highly incriminating (possible planted) wallet from the Tippit scene does have such value, it's certainly not impossible that a simple switch was made.

And the kicker is that these are the very same investigators you otherwise imply are involved in a conspiracy to frame Oswald

I never said that those DPD officers were part of a conspiracy to frame Oswald. But it is not impossible that in Henry Wade's 1963 Texas, the case was wrapped around Oswald, regardless of his guilt or innocence.
History has shown that the DPD had a reputation for frequently doing stuff like that, which is exactly the reason why the innocence project managed to get a substantial number of convictions obtained by Wade overturned.

Here, however, you suggest they are doing exactly the opposite by covering up the discovery of his wallet at the murder scene.

No. You are suggesting that. I never did