JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate > JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate

Reasonable Doubts?

<< < (6/18) > >>

John Corbett:

--- Quote from: Michael T. Griffith on June 09, 2026, 07:56:52 PM ---This is beyond silly.
--- End quote ---

So silly you have no answer to the conundrum you have created by suggesting that JBC's sudden arm flip preceded his wrist being shot by 3.6 seconds. I've noticed that when illogical CTs such as yourself are confronted with the illogic of what they have proposed, their standard reply is to make a dismissive response such as "This is beyond silly" without ever addressing the point they are asked to explain. You have no logical response, so you resort to bluster.
--- Quote ---
You have no clue what you're talking about. If you would ever dare yourself to read just some of the scholarly refutations of the SBT, you would quickly discover that they have explained in great detail why the theory is preposterous.
--- End quote ---

"Scholarly refutations of the the SBT" are like unicorns. I've never actually seen one.
--- Quote ---
Perhaps in your dreams. BTW, which SBT do you accept? The one that has the bullet entering at C7 or the one that has the bullet entering at T1? The one that has the bullet traveling at a downward angle or the one that has the bullet traveling at a slightly upward angle? The one that has the bullet hitting JFK above the alleged exit point or the one that has the bullet hitting JFK slightly below the exit point? The one that has Connally rotated to the right by 10-15 degrees or the one that has him rotated to the right by 20-30 degrees? The one that has the magic bullet as the first shot or the one that has it as the second shot? The one that has the bullet hitting JFK at Z188-190, or the one that has the bullet hitting JFK at Z221, or the one that has the bullet hitting JFK at Z224? The one that says JFK shows no signs of reacting to the wound until Z226, or the one that says he is already reacting in Z225, or the one that says he begins to react at Z200?
--- End quote ---

I have no answer for questions based on false pretenses. The bullet entered JFK's upper back approximately two inches right of JFK's back. The location is shown in one of the leaked autopsy photos. The bullet exited JFK's throat at the level of the knot of his necktie. It tumbled upon exiting and struck JBC who was sitting in front of and slightly to the left of JFK. The bullet entered in the back near his right armpit making an elongated wound due to the tumble. The bullet exited below his right nipple and passed through his right wrist, depositing tiny lead fragments from the core which was only exposed at the base of the bullet.. The bullet went on to make a shallow penetration in JBC's thigh before working its way loose and was discovered at Parkland hospital and become CE399.
--- Quote ---

Just for once, do a modicum of balanced research and educate yourself:

The Shifting Sands of the Single-Bullet Theory
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MOKXTpq1hC5UHrF-JanDjQvzk2q0HvRF/view

JFK's Clothing Proves the Single-Bullet Theory Is Impossible
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MAgWA0frOLVeWY6ok9nzdrgpRN4Wv1AL/view?usp=sharing

Ten Reasons I Reject the Single-Bullet Theory
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-7AW56BXCumXFsOwyN6lE0WTBltOzeYI/view

--- End quote ---

These three articles are nothing more than a collection of stale old myths, misstatements of fact, and your amateur analysis of the medical evidence which is at odds with the conclusions of the FPP, which concurred with the SBT with the lone dissenter being Cyril Wecht. A classic example of garbage in, garbage out.

John Corbett:

--- Quote from: Zeon Mason on June 09, 2026, 08:22:07 PM ---I’m in agreement with the LNs that the coincidence of the in sync movements of JFK and JC from Z224-Z230 are due to one bullet going thru both men.

I’m just not on board with that bullet being CE 399.

I’m in agreement with LNs that there was probably just the one shooter in the TSBD 6th floor who fired 3 shots.

I’m just not on board that the rifle was the MC rifle found on the 6th floor because of Harold Norman’s 4 sec spacing for all 3 shots fired as per  his boom click click demonstration. A bolt action rifle fired , then  ejecting shells and then shells hitting the ground would be a more elaborate set of sounds such as 
Boom, ( rifle firing ) clack clack ,(bolt operation)  clink clink. ( sound of shells bouncing on the hard wooden plank/ plywood floor)

I’m not sure about JC’s  wrist wound being caused by the Z224 shot. JC raising his right hand up clutching the hat could be just as well reaction to the bullet going ONLY thru his chest and into his thigh. The bullet might have missed his wrist depending where JC is holding his hat with his right hand at that moment.

What’s the probability of a fragment from the Z313 shot hitting JCs wrist while he was leaning back into Mrs C lap?

--- End quote ---

Slim and none.

I'll never understand the need to rewrite the conclusions of the WC when those conclusions make perfect sense.

Andrew Mason:

--- Quote from: Zeon Mason on June 09, 2026, 08:22:07 PM ---What’s the probability of a fragment from the Z313 shot hitting JCs wrist while he was leaning back into Mrs C lap?

--- End quote ---
That might explain the shot to the wrist but it doesn’t explain how the leg wound was caused.

Benjamin Cole:
Am ZM--

The bullet hole in Gov. JBC's wrist bone (radius) is a biggie (see picture x-ray provided earlier).

I am a layman, but I doubt a shard from CE-399 could have done that.

Michael T. Griffith:

--- Quote from: Benjamin Cole on June 07, 2026, 03:44:10 AM ---Recently I have been chided for having what I term "reasonable doubts" about the LNT-SBT, especially in connection to Gov. JBC and his Stetson hat.

[SNIP]

The Core Arguments The Injury: Governor Connally sustained a severely comminuted (shattered) fracture to his right radius bone, completely severing the bone and destroying the wrist's structural integrity. Medics noted that the median nerve was also damaged, leading to an instant loss of motor control and strength in his right hand.

The Physics: Holding a rigid cowboy hat (Stetson) firmly in the air requires grip strength and the use of the wrist joint. Once shattered, the hand would typically go limp, causing the hat to fall to the floor of the limousine instantly.

8)The Warren Commission's [SNIP] theorized Connally reflexively maintained the hat in his grasp or that the hat was simply trapped in his hand or lap as he was struck.

[SNIP]

The most prominent expert who explicitly used the term "highly improbable" regarding the single-bullet theory and its medical trajectory is Dr. Cyril Wecht. He was a highly renowned forensic pathologist, attorney, and former president of the American Academy of Forensic Sciences.

Dr. Cyril Wecht's Medical Critique: Dr. Wecht extensively studied the medical evidence and testified before the House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA). He vehemently argued against the Warren Commission's timeline using Zapruder film frame 230.

His expert critique regarding the hat specifically centers on the following points:

The Neurological Impossibility: Dr. Wecht noted that the bullet shattered the distal end of Connally's right radius bone (wrist) and partially severed his radial nerve.

Voluntary vs. Involuntary Control: He argued that with a collapsed lung from the chest wound and a shredded wrist nerve, it is medically "incongruous" for Connally to maintain voluntary grip strength to hold up a heavy Stetson cowboy hat for 1.5 seconds after the alleged impact.

[SNIP]

The Parkland Hospital Surgeons: Doctors like Dr. Charles Gregory (who operated on Connally’s wrist) noted that the neurovascular and bone destruction from a high-velocity military round would cause immediate, catastrophic loss of function in the hand.

Independent Forensic Analysts: Over decades, secondary medical critics—such as those featured in Jim Garrison's investigative files and various independent forensic studies—concluded that the hand would immediately go limp, meaning the hat could only remain in the hand if it was involuntarily trapped or wedged against his lap rather than actively held.

[SNIP]

Gov. JBC is indisputably seen at Z-272 holding onto his Stetson hat. Even the WC assents to that. Yet, the WC contends Gov. JBC was already shot through the wrist at that point...well, that is highly improbable.
--- End quote ---

A couple follow-up points: First and foremost, we should remember that Connally himself, the guy who actually experienced the wounding, insisted he was not hit before Z229-230. After viewing the Zapruder film a few times for the WC, Connally said he was not hit before Z230. Two years later, in 1966, he was given the opportunity by LIFE magazine to study high-quality color prints of the Zapruder film under high magnification, frame by frame, and to take as much time as he felt he needed. After doing so, Connally insisted he was certain he was not hit before Z229, and he selected Z234 as the moment of the bullet's impact.

As you noted, in Z230 Connally is still holding the hat. The hat is not pinned or wedged involuntarily against his thigh but is being held by his right hand. This proves his wrist could not have been hit yet, but the SBT requires that he was hit no later than Z224, and the Zapruder film shows he was clearly hit well before Z224.

It is revealing that even the HSCA FPP majority disagreed among themselves about how long Connally could have held onto his hat after the supposed SBT hit at Z188-190 (there was a Z188-190 hit, but it was not the alleged magic bullet). They fell back on the royal dodge that there was "little empirical data" to determine "with confidence what specific reaction should be expected from this type of wound" (7 HSCA 180). Well, yeah, unless they had film of someone being shot in the right wrist ala Connally's wrist wound, or unless they actually watched someone incurring such a wound, there was indeed little empirical data, i.e., data verified by observation or experience; however, there was plenty of scientific medical data that said there was no way a person could continue to hold onto a hat with their hand after the distal end of the radius bone was shattered and after part of the radial nerve was severed, and the FPP majority surely knew it.

It is also rather revealing that in the FPP majority's reply to Dr. Wecht's dissent, they made no effort to explain how Connally could have continued to grip his hat--not one word. Wecht mocked the majority's waffling on this key point:

Wecht exhibit 6 shows JBC firmly clutching his hat. This is approximately 1.5 seconds after he is alleged to have been shot through the chest, right wrist, and into his left thigh. Indeed, the FPPR [forensic pathology panel report] states that they were surprised that although he had suffered the injury to his wrist, he did not drop his hat. The panel should not only be surprised, but incredulous. If they were not so slavishly dedicated to defending the Warren Commission report (WCR), and the previous opinions submitted by two of the panel members, Dr. James Weston and Dr. Werner Spitz, they would have interpreted this picture correctly and accepted it for what it obviously and clearly demonstrates-namely, that JBC was not struck in the chest, wrist, or thigh by CE 399, and the SBT is, therefore, indefensible. (7 HSCA 199)

In his HSCA testimony, Wecht explained why Z230 poses such a severe problem for the SBT:

Mr. PURDY. Dr. Wecht, in your opinion, could Governor Connally have incurred the damage to his wrist which is described in the medical reports and still be holding the hat as shown in this photograph?

Dr. WECHT. No, absolutely not. In F-245, which is a blowup of Zapruder frame 230, we are told under the single-bullet theory that Gov. John Connally, for a period of approximately one and a half seconds, has already been shot through the right chest with the right lung pierced and collapsed, through the right wrist, with the distal end of the radius comminuted and the radial nerve partially
severed.

I heard some vague reference to a nerve in the prior testimony, but I didn't hear the follow through discussion that I was waiting for about nerve damage. There was nerve damage, yes, to the radial nerve. And the thumb which holds this large Texas white Stetson that is required for it to be in apposition with the index or index and middle fingers to hold that hat is innervated by the radial nerve. Note in F-245 that the hat is still being held and Governor Connally is not reacting. (1 HSCA 342)

Finally, it is worth remembering that Dr. Werner Spitz, one of the FPP majority, admitted in 1975 that the back-wound bullet "penetrated the skin in a sharply upward direction" and that the bullet "traveled upwards within the body." He admitted this in his report to the Rockefeller Commission, adding that there was "no doubt" about it:

There is no doubt that the bullet which struck the President’s back penetrated the skin in a sharply upward direction, as is evident from the width of the abrasion at the lower half of the bullet wound of entrance. The term "sharply upward direction" is used because it is evident from this injury that the missile traveled upwards within the body. (Report of Werner Spitz, 4/24/75, p. 1, Rockefeller Commission papers, see https://websites.umich.edu/~ahaq/correspondence.pdf)

The wound's abrasion collar alone makes this clear, so clear that this was something Baden could not sweep under the rug, and so the FPP report acknowledges the upward trajectory of the bullet as it entered the skin and allegedly transited the neck. Baden attempted to explain this devastating fact by assuming that JFK was leaning nearly 60 degrees forward when the bullet struck (oddly, the WC's trajectory experts had to make the same erroneous assumption about the forward lean of JFK's head to make the head-shot trajectory "work").

 

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page

[*] Previous page