JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate > JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate
CTers: Do yourself a favor and focus on plausibility
John Corbett:
--- Quote from: Lance Payette on June 09, 2026, 02:03:21 AM ---JM -
I absolutely agree that this was Oswald's primary motive. It fits equally well with the LN narrative and a conspiracy narrative in which Oswald thought he was doing what the LN narrative posits him doing but was actually the dupe* of others with an entirely different motive. The problem (if one wants to explore conspiracy possibilities) is plausibly connecting him to these mysterious "others." He was pretty vocal and visible about his pro-Castro sympathies, but how would he and his employment in the TSBD have become known to these "others?" Since Byrd owned the TSBD building and Cason was president of the TSBD company, I suppose this is one selling point of Dan's theory if he can account for how either of them would have known of Oswald's background.
*I am sick of "patsy." "Dupe" is my new thing. :D
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I would wager that the universe of people who even knew Oswald worked at the TSBD was quite small. It would include his co-workers, Marina, Ruth Paine, and Linnie Mae Randall. Did i miss anybody? This is an important point. If someone is going to posit that others put Oswald up to the assassination, you need to show that those people were aware of the fact Oswald's workplace overlooked the motorcade route.
Lance Payette:
--- Quote from: Dan O'meara on June 09, 2026, 03:05:15 AM ---In my made up scenario the pics above show Bill Shelley in New Orleans hanging around with the Pro-Castro crowd. This can possibly tied in with his reported CIA affiliations (or not)
Oswald is part of the same crowd. This way Shelley can know who Oswald is and that he is a Pro-Castro Marxist. He can also know about Oswald being an ex-Marine who defected to Russia. Shelley can set up Oswald telling him that he is part of some Pro-Castro stunt at the TSBD.
Another handy piece of evidence are the reports that Oswald included Bill Shelley as part of his alibi for leaving the TSBD on the day of the assassination. While being questioned Oswald reportedly said he only left the TSBD as a result of a conversation with Shelley. Oswald is not stupid. He knows its the easiest thing in the world for this alibi to be checked, so he must have been fully expecting Shelley to back him up. If he had no relationship with Shelley he would never have mentioned him and he wouldn't expect Shelley to back him up if it was a lie.
Why would Oswald expect Bill Shelley to cover for him>
--- End quote ---
Does that photo strongly resemble Shelley? Certainly.
There are a number of threads at the Ed Forum regarding the photo, including a long one when (I believe) the Shelley claim was first made. Several CT-oriented members noted the difficulty of "identification" from old photos and the popularity of that hairstyle at the time - posting photos of Ed "Kookie" Byrnes and the Everly Brothers! Larry Hancock offered a different and seemingly pretty convincing take:
I think if you keep looking you will find a wide angle photo which shows the man in question to the right of the leafleting with a group of young girls. Suggest you compare that and you will find he is much younger, was a local DJ
at the time, had just married an under age Latino which got him charged with statutory rape and he would later talk of having been personally at the leafleting, knowing Oswald and a great many other things - he would go on to become a traveling minister, singer and become involved in a number of scans and con games with Fred Chrisman....that should be enough clues.
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Yes I would suggest it was Beckham, especially since he testified he was there at the leafleting and spoke to Oswald. This has been discussed numerous times before. Nope, I don't have a scanner but its been posted before in similar discussions. Its one of those many things that constantly recycles.
Its up to you guys to decide...you have a statement from someone who says he was there, and talking to Oswald and someone resembling that person is captured in several photos...including the wide angle one with the girls
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If you decide it is Shelly then it would be good to place him in New Orleans, prove he was not at work in Dallas that day and also come up with a reason why he would have been in New Orleans and would appear with Oswald in public while lots of photos were being taken.
It might even be good to make sure that the whole series of photos shows the suspect as separate from the photo I described with the girls.
Personally I've just become pretty demanding on myself is identifying folks in JFK related photos. I hesitated to even comment on this as its come up before on different forums and occasions but I figured you should at least consider Beckham.
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David, I'll do this the best I can from memory.....originally in his NO Grand Jury testimony he said he had never met Oswald. However you should take a look at his HSCA interview; that's where I recall he talked about knowing Oswald and even meeting him on the street during the leafleting. You might find this in Joan's book as well or even in Caufield's interviews with him. which I see are on line. Now I have to say I don't trust Mr. Beckham on any detail I cannot independently confirm so at the time I started looking at the photos and found the wider angle which I keep talking about which shows him with the young Latina's. Having gotten his military and arrest records I knew he had just married an underage girl and I also knew he was working at a radio station in the neighborhood. After examining several photos I came to the conclusion that he had indeed been there probably had briefly spoken to Oswald who I suspect he did know from hanging around Bannister's young men who did street work for him.
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Just for reference, at the time of the photo Beckham had just gotten a new job at a radio station - as a disc jockey - and was considerably more "respectable" than previously. He also had a new, underage, wife and would shortly face morals charges over that. In an expanded view of the leafleting photo he can be seen talking with a group of young, very well dressed girls one of whom I suspect was his new wife. Admittedly speculation but it is one thing that would back up his assertion that he had encountered Oswald leafleting on the street. Given that context I'm still maintaining that the individual in question was Thomas Beckham.
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Joe I don't impose my ideas on anybody and yes I am saying the individual talking to the young women in one view, the same as seen in a separate photo closer to Oswald, is Beckham. He ways he was there, he says he observed Oswald, he provably worked in New Orleans and in that area at the time. If you want to bring somebody else in strictly based on appearance that's your call - personally I have always needed more than appearances to prove in a suspect for myself, but that's just me.
Bill Shelley singing with Don Everly. Phil had a cold and couldn't make the gig. Shelley mucked up the lyrics to "Wake Up, Little Susie" but otherwise did a creditable job. :D
John Corbett:
--- Quote from: Lance Payette on June 09, 2026, 02:03:21 AM ---JM -
I absolutely agree that this was Oswald's primary motive. It fits equally well with the LN narrative and a conspiracy narrative in which Oswald thought he was doing what the LN narrative posits him doing but was actually the dupe* of others with an entirely different motive. The problem (if one wants to explore conspiracy possibilities) is plausibly connecting him to these mysterious "others." He was pretty vocal and visible about his pro-Castro sympathies, but how would he and his employment in the TSBD have become known to these "others?" Since Byrd owned the TSBD building and Cason was president of the TSBD company, I suppose this is one selling point of Dan's theory if he can account for how either of them would have known of Oswald's background.
*I am sick of "patsy." "Dupe" is my new thing. :D
--- End quote ---
Theoretically possible doesn't equate to plausible. You need evidence that the people who you think duped Oswald knew he worked at a building overlooking the motorcade route and that they persuaded him to carry out the assassination. Imagination is a poor substitute for evidence.
Lance Payette:
--- Quote from: John Corbett on June 09, 2026, 01:36:23 PM ---Theoretically possible doesn't equate to plausible. You need evidence that the people who you think duped Oswald knew he worked at a building overlooking the motorcade route and that they persuaded him to carry out the assassination. Imagination is a poor substitute for evidence.
--- End quote ---
Unlike zealots of any stripe, I don't actually "need" anything insofar as the JFKA is concerned. Insofar as a plausible conspiracy theory is concerned, I don't think the conspirators needed to know Oswald was working in a building overlooking the motorcade route before recruiting him. He was an in-your-face Castro supporter and Marxist whose sympathies could have been known to many people and who could have been involved in anti-JFK discussions well in advance of the JFKA. It could have been Oswald who approached the others and said "Holy cow, JFK is going to be right in front of the building in which I'm working!" Certainly, as Dan recognizes, convincingly tying Oswald into "the plot" is the primary obstacle to even the most plausible conspiracy theory.
John Corbett:
--- Quote from: Lance Payette on June 09, 2026, 02:09:39 PM ---Unlike zealots of any stripe, I don't actually "need" anything insofar as the JFKA is concerned.
--- End quote ---
No you don't. Imagination suffices when cooking up JFKA conspiracy theories. However, if you want to make a compelling argument, you need to do a little better. Some evidence would be nice.
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Insofar as a plausible conspiracy theory is concerned, I don't think the conspirators needed to know Oswald was working in a building overlooking the motorcade route before recruiting him. He was an in-your-face Castro supporter and Marxist whose sympathies could have been known to many people and who could have been involved in anti-JFK discussions well in advance of the JFKA.
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Why would they recruit someone if they didn't know he had a perch overlooking the motorcade route. Did they just get lucky?
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It could have been Oswald who approached the others and said "Holy cow, JFK is going to be right in front of the building in which I'm working!"
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If Oswald was going to shoot JFK, why would he need to approach anybody? Why not just do it an not tell anybody?
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Certainly, as Dan recognizes, convincingly tying Oswald into "the plot" is the primary obstacle to even the most plausible conspiracy theory.
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It is not an obstacle. It is an essential element for anyone positing Oswald was part of a conspiracy and not just acting alone. This is the one element that all conspiracy theories lack. Compelling evidence that someone other than Oswald was complicit in the assassination. For over 6 decades, CTs have used imagination in lieu of evidence to support their theories. If they can conceive it, they will believe it.
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