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What about that dent?

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Benjamin Cole:
TG-

I could never make heads nor tails out of what any of the audio experts said on the dictabelt, on any side of the issue.

Unlike the Z-film, where a layman can make a reasonable educated guess what happened, I suspect almost no one in the JFKA research community has any idea what the audio experts are talking about.

Who knows?

Tom Graves:

--- Quote from: Benjamin Cole on May 05, 2026, 06:26:44 AM ---TG-

I could never make heads nor tails out of what any of the audio experts said on the dictabelt, on any side of the issue.

Unlike the Z-film, where a layman can make a reasonable educated guess what happened, I suspect almost no one in the JFKA research community has any idea what the audio experts are talking about.

Who knows?

--- End quote ---

Maybe? Maybe not?

ME: Was H. B. McLain's motorcycle's radio stuck in the "on" position when he was travelling on Houston Street a few seconds before the first shot rang out?

Thought for 4s

GROK: No, according to H.B. McLain himself and significant later analysis; the HSCA initially concluded yes, but this is heavily disputed.

en.wikipedia.org

H.B. McLain (sometimes spelled McLain or McLean) was a Dallas Police Department motorcycle officer riding in the JFK motorcade on November 22, 1963. He was positioned on the left rear of the motorcade (near Vice President Johnson's car) and testified that he was on Houston Street, approaching the turn onto Elm Street, when he heard the first shot.

aarclibrary.org

HSCA Position (1978–1979)The House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA) used acoustic analysis of a Dallas Police Dictabelt recording (Channel 1) to argue there was a fourth shot from the grassy knoll, implying a conspiracy. They identified a ~5.5-minute "stuck microphone" transmission—where the mic button stayed open—as coming from McLain's motorcycle.

en.wikipedia.org

Timing and location match: The HSCA placed the open-mic motorcycle on Houston Street seconds before the first shot (impulses analyzed as gunshots), consistent with McLain's position and testimony.

jfk-records.com

McLain acknowledged in testimony that his microphone could stick open (it had happened before due to worn gaskets or relays), though he had no specific memory of it doing so that day. He normally used Channel 1 and didn't recall using his radio during the motorcade.

aarclibrary.org

McLain's Denial and Counter-EvidenceMcLain strongly disputed the HSCA's identification after hearing the recording:He said it was not his motorcycle because the tape lacks sounds of him revving his engine at high speed or activating his siren immediately after the shots (as he recalled doing while racing to Parkland Hospital).

youtube.com

The engine sounds on the tape reportedly match a three-wheeled motorcycle better than his two-wheeler.

en.wikipedia.org

Later Dallas Police analysis and critics argued his bike was not in the right position or that the acoustic matches were flawed. McLain maintained the stuck mic was someone else's.

independent.org

Subsequent reviews (e.g., by the National Academy of Sciences and others) have criticized the HSCA acoustics as unreliable due to issues with synchronization, crosstalk, and identification of the bike. The "stuck mic" theory remains controversial and is not universally accepted.

en.wikipedia.org

In short: The HSCA said yes (McLain's bike on Houston Street with stuck "on" mic), but McLain and many analysts said no—the evidence doesn't hold up under scrutiny of his actions and the audio. This remains a debated piece of JFK assassination lore tied to the conspiracy vs. lone-gunman arguments.


ME: After he listened to the Dictabelt recording, did he say that the motorcycle with the stuck radio sounded like a three-wheeler?

Thought for 3s

Yes.

en.wikipedia.org

After listening to the Dictabelt recording (following his 1978 HSCA testimony, where he had acknowledged the possibility of a stuck mic but lacked specific recall), H.B. McLain explicitly stated that the engine sounds on the tape came from a three-wheeled motorcycle, not his two-wheeled Harley-Davidson solo bike.

kenrahn.com

Key quotes and details:

McLain told author Dale Myers (in an interview recounted in Myers' work): “I told him, ‘It’s a three-wheeler that’s stuck.’ You can tell very clearly the difference between the sound of a solo motorcycle that we rode and a three-wheel motorcycle; it’s like daylight and dark. The solo engine has kind of a thump to it: CHUKE.. CHUKE.. CHUKE.., while the three-wheeler has more of a thrashing sound.. AAANG.. AAANG.. AAANG!”

kenrahn.com

He also said: "There's no comparison to the two sounds."

en.wikipedia.org

This was one of his main reasons for rejecting the HSCA's identification of his motorcycle as the one with the stuck-open microphone. He further noted the absence of his engine revving at high speed or his siren activating as he raced toward Parkland Hospital, and he believed the recording likely came from a different officer on a three-wheeler (possibly near the Trade Mart).

en.wikipedia.org

This point has been cited in Wikipedia summaries, books, and discussions of the Dictabelt evidence, reinforcing McLain's consistent post-recording denial. The three-wheeler distinction remains a key element in critiques of the acoustic evidence for a grassy knoll shot.


ME: Did he say that the three-wheeler must have been near another motorcycle that didn't have a stuck mic?

Thought for 5s

GROK: No, there is no record of H.B. McLain saying that.

kenrahn.com

In his detailed accounts (including interviews recounted by author Dale Myers and in The Deed by Gerald Posner), McLain consistently identified the stuck-mic sounds as coming from a single three-wheeled motorcycle (a Harley Servi-Car) operated by an officer known for whistling—likely Leslie "Les" Beilharz—stationed near the Dallas Trade Mart, about three miles from Dealey Plaza.

kenrahn.com

Key points from McLain's statements:He emphasized the distinct engine sound ("thrashing" AAANG.. AAANG.. vs. his solo bike's "thump" CHUKE.. CHUKE..) and other audio cues like the rider whistling, a loose manhole cover ("Bong...Bong"), and a sheriff’s car radio also assigned to the Trade Mart area.

kenrahn.com

He described the stuck mic as isolated to that three-wheeler, far from the motorcade and Dealey Plaza, which explained why no shots or relevant motorcade sounds (like his own siren or high-speed revving) appeared on the Dictabelt.

en.wikipedia.org

There is no mention by McLain (or in associated analyses citing him) of the three-wheeler being near another motorcycle whose mic was not stuck. He and dispatcher J.C. Bowles used the clues to pinpoint one specific officer and location, ruling out the motorcade entirely.

kenrahn.com

This aligns with broader critiques of the HSCA acoustics: the open-mic recording originated elsewhere, not from McLain's position on Houston Street. McLain's focus was always on disproving it was his bike by highlighting the mismatch with a solitary three-wheeler elsewhere.


ME: He said that in a January 4, 1979, interview to Helmer Reenberg which can be watched on YouTube.

Thought for 5s

GROK: Yes, in that specific January 4, 1979, interview with Helmer Reenberg (available on YouTube), H.B. McLain stated exactly that.

youtube.com

Relevant excerpt from the interview (transcribed from the video):"...it's going to have to come from some place where you've got two vehicles sitting fairly close together with one of them stuck because they have two tapes one of them is on channel one [and] one is on channel two and you can hear the same voice on channel one as [on] channel two..."
McLain was explaining why the Dictabelt recording could not have come from his motorcycle (or any near the motorcade in Dealey Plaza). He theorized the stuck mic was on one police vehicle (a three-wheeler, per his other statements) located near a second vehicle whose radio was operating normally on Channel 2, allowing cross-hearing of the same voice on both channels. This placed the source far from Dealey Plaza (e.g., near the Trade Mart), consistent with his rejection of the HSCA acoustics.

youtube.com

This detail aligns with his broader critique (distinct engine sounds, no siren/revving, etc.) but specifically addresses the dual-channel aspect in this early post-HSCA interview. Earlier and later accounts (e.g., with Dale Myers) focus more on the three-wheeler identification and location without always repeating the "two vehicles" point.

Michael T. Griffith:

--- Quote from: Tom Graves on May 05, 2026, 03:02:54 AM ---ME: Were any of the shells that were found in the "Sniper's Nest" on 11/22/63 dented? If so, does it present a problem for the official conclusion of the Warren Commission?

Thought for 23s

GROK: Yes, one of the three spent cartridge cases (shells) found in the "sniper's nest" on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository had a dent. The three cases recovered by Dallas police on November 22, 1963, were designated as Warren Commission Exhibits (CE) 543, 544, and 545. CE 543 had a noticeable inward dent on the mouth (the open lip where the bullet had been seated).

educationforum.ipbhost.com +1

This dent has been documented in photographs taken at the scene (and later in Commission exhibits) and was examined by the FBI and, later, the House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA) Firearms Panel. The other two cases (CE 544 and CE 545) were undamaged in this way.

aarclibrary.org

No, this does not present a problem for the Warren Commission's official conclusion (that Lee Harvey Oswald fired three shots from a 6.5 mm Mannlicher-Carcano rifle in the sniper's nest, with the three cartridge cases ejected from that rifle). The Warren Commission itself relied on FBI ballistic analysis showing that all three cases had been fired in Oswald's rifle (CE 139), based on matching firing-pin impressions, extractor marks, and bolt-face marks.

archives.gov

The dent on CE 543 prompted criticism from some researchers, who argued it was so severe that the case could not have held a live bullet beforehand (implying it could not have been one of the three shots fired during the assassination, or that the case was planted or previously damaged).

jfk.boards.net +1

However, the HSCA Firearms Panel (a team of independent firearms experts) directly addressed this in 1977–1978.

They concluded:

The dent on the mouth of CE 543 was produced during ejection from the rifle (specifically, from rapid operation of the bolt/ejector mechanism), not before firing or from manufacturing/loading.

They duplicated an identical dent in test firings with Oswald’s rifle (one of four test cases showed a comparable dent when the bolt was worked quickly).
Microscopic comparison confirmed that all three cases (including the dented CE 543) were fired in the CE 139 rifle, with no evidence of multiple chamberings or prior firings.

aarclibrary.org +1

The panel explicitly rejected the idea that the dent would have prevented the case from being fired in the rifle (or any rifle).

ronaldjlilek.medium.com

The Warren Commission (1964) did not dwell on the dent as an issue—the FBI’s initial matching of the cases to the rifle was sufficient for their conclusion of three shots from the sniper’s nest. The later HSCA analysis reinforced this by resolving the dent question through direct experimentation. While some conspiracy-oriented analyses continue to dispute the replication or point to minor chain-of-custody details (e.g., CE 543 was turned over to the FBI a few days later than the others), the official forensic examinations found the dent fully consistent with the three-shot scenario.

documents3.theblackvault.com

In short, the dent is real and well-documented, but it has been explained as post-firing ejection damage and does not contradict (or undermine) the Warren Commission’s ballistics findings or lone-gunman conclusion.

--- End quote ---

It is sad, and really inexcusable, to see anyone repeating these long-since debunked claims. The dented shell, CE 543, is hard evidence of conspiracy because the shell could not have been used to fire a bullet during the assassination.

No, the HSCA firearms experts did not duplicate the CE 543 dent in any of their test shells. Anyone can look at the shells they produced and see that they are not nearly as dented as CE 543. The same goes for Chad Zimmerman's supposed duplication of the dent in CE 543.

A few other important facts:

-- CE 543 has three sets of marks on the base that are not found on the two other shells and that were not made on any of the numerous shells that were ejected from the alleged murder weapon during firing tests.

-- CE 543 does not have the characteristic chambering impression along the side exhibited by the other cartridges we know to have been seated in the chamber of the alleged murder weapon, i.e.,, CE 544 and CE 545, and also CE 141 (the live round found in the chamber of the rifle. The impression on CE 141 is in the same location but is not as pronounced as on CEs 544 and 545, almost certainly due to the fact that it was not fired.

-- CE 543 could not have been marked by the alleged murder weapon’s magazine follower during the assassination because there was a live round left in the rifle’s chamber and only the last shell in the clip is marked by the magazine follower. This fact alone discredits the HSCA firearms experts' claims about the dented shell, as research scientist Dr. Don Thomas has explained:

Furthermore, according to the FBI experts, the casing had been marked by the magazine follower. This fact is especially relevant because only the last cartridge in the clip is marked by the magazine follower, and inasmuch as the Oswald rifle still had one live round in the chamber, CE 543 could not have been marked by the magazine follower as an operation of the rifle during the assassination. The failure of the HSCA Firearms Panel to disclose or discuss the discrepancy between their conclusion and the FBI findings forces the conclusion that the Firearms Panel analysis of this problem was less than forthright and certainly less than thorough. (Hear No Evil: Politics, Science, and the Forensic Evidence in the Kennedy Assassination, New York: Skyhorse Publishing, 2010, p. 141)

I discuss the dented shell at length in my book A Comforting Lie: They Myth That a Lone Gunman Killed President Kennedy. A condensed version of that discussion is available on my website:

The Dented Bullet Shell: Hard Evidence of Conspiracy in the JFK Assassination
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ihue8a0GmN_Ptl38bPjpu1F99nqU0Z6f/view

Lance Payette:
MTG: "Because if that cartridge case could not have been used to fire a bullet during the assassination, then there must have been more than one gunman."

Dented shell: Dry firing round in the chamber of the disassembled M-C in Ruth Paine's garage. JFKA: Two shots. Case closed. You're welcome.

Helpful freebie advice: I notice MTG's paper says "@ All Rights Reserved." Obviously "@" is incorrect and looks goofy. The copyright symbol may be found on your keyboard by holding the Alt key and typing 0169 on the numeric keyboard, to wit:

© 2022 Michael T. Griffith. All rights reserved.
There, now you don't look like a goofball. Actually, none of that is necessary. Copyright protection is automatic. You do need to register the copyright to sue for infringement, but you can do that just before you sue and there is little risk of anyone even wanting to infringe your work anyway. I did some copyright and trademark work when I was an in-house attorney at Xerox. Anyone want to hear about the Berne Convention?

John Corbett:

--- Quote from: Lance Payette on June 03, 2026, 11:30:08 PM ---MTG: "Because if that cartridge case could not have been used to fire a bullet during the assassination, then there must have been more than one gunman."

Dented shell: Dry firing round in the chamber of the disassembled M-C in Ruth Paine's garage. JFKA: Two shots. Case closed. You're welcome.

Helpful freebie advice: I notice MTG's paper says "@ All Rights Reserved." Obviously "@" is incorrect and looks goofy. The copyright symbol may be found on your keyboard by holding the Alt key and typing 0169 on the numeric keyboard, to wit:

© 2022 Michael T. Griffith. All rights reserved.
There, now you don't look like a goofball. Actually, none of that is necessary. Copyright protection is automatic. You do need to register the copyright to sue for infringement, but you can do that just before you sue and there is little risk of anyone even wanting to infringe your work anyway. I did some copyright and trademark work when I was an in-house attorney at Xerox. Anyone want to hear about the Berne Convention?

--- End quote ---

A two shot scenario is akin to the likelihood Oswald had accomplices, theoretcially possible but highly unlikely.

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