The Tippit Shooting At 1:15-1:16, FACT

[John Corbett]

That's talking out of two sides of your mouth.
"I don't take much in Roberts, but she did she a jacket."

If you're going to quote me, please dos so accurately. I said:
"She said he had his jacket on. While I have no reason to doubt that either, I wouldn't take it to the bank solely her word."

There is a technique known as "COPY AND PASTE". If you learned how to do that, you wouldn't have to lie about what I said.

who saw that?

It's been a number of years since I discussed this aspect and I wrote that from memory so I may have overstated the case. Here is what I found from Dale Myers's website:

"The first mention of a “discarded jacket” occurred at about 1:23 p.m., when sergeants Calvin B. Owens, Gerald L. Hill, and assistant D.A. William F. “Bill” Alexander rolled up at Tenth and Patton. As they arrived, they were approached by an unidentified man who told them that Tippit’s killer had “thrown down his jacket” in the 400 block of East Jefferson – the area of the Texaco service station. [39] (More on this, later.)"

So I will concede that no one is on record as having seen Oswald toss the jacket under the car. The fact is that Oswald's jacket was found under a car and I think we can conclude it didn't get there by PFM (pure freeking magic)

[Zeon Mason]

Before Bill notices my mistake ( he’s good at that lol) I’m correcting it myself. PTOLEMY was the astronomer who advocated  Earth at the Center of the Universe theory.

Copernicus placed the sun at the center of his planetary model of “perfect”   circular orbits which seemed to solve SOME of the earlier planetary motions unexplained by the Ptolemy model but there were still some unexplained motions of planets such as Mars.

So I’m not saying Bill is entirely wrong. The WC theory  may be almost as correct as the Copernicus model was thought to be and it just needs to be tweaked and throw out all the evidence which cannot be verified by someone recorded as the original finder of that evidence.

[Martin Weidmann]

That's talking out of two sides of your mouth.
"I don't take much in Roberts, but she did she a jacket."

who saw that?

You have to admire their flawed logic;

Earlene Roberts is "probably one of the least important pieces of evidence we have".... "She said he had his jacket on" and he has no reason to doubt what Roberts said.

Never mind there is no corroboration for it, like the kind he demands for Buell Frazier, and Roberts's employer calls her not credible!

"The fact Oswald was seen throwing the jacket under a car and a jacket was retrieved from there that was identified belonging to him is enough for me."

Never mind that there is no chain of custody to show that the white jacket found under the car is the same as the grey jacket that Oswald owned

Even less so when the DPD dispatcher said;

Wanted for investigation for assault to murder on a police officer: A white male; approximately thirty; about five foot eight; slender build; has black hair; a white jacket; a white shirt and dark trousers. The suspect last seen running west on Jefferson from 400 East Jefferson. 1:24

And the officer (279) calling in the find said;

We believe we've got this suspect on shooting this officer out here. Got his white jacket. Believe he dumped it on this parking lot behind this service station at 400 block East Jefferson across from Dudley Hughes and he had a white jacket on. We believe this is it.

And then;

"So I will concede that no one is on record as having seen Oswald toss the jacket under the car."

So, if nobody saw Oswald leave a jacket under the car, and the suspect was wearing a white shirt (which Oswald didn't) where does that leave him with the "I have no reason to doubt Roberts" BS

And then it comes;

The fact is that Oswald's jacket was found under a car and I think we can conclude it didn't get there by PFM

So a jacket was found under a car and an officer believed it was the suspect's jacket (and wearing a white shirt) is all he has got left!

And it would indeed have been PFM for Oswald's grey jacket (CE 162) to be found under a car in Oak Cliff and being described as white, when there is evidence that places that grey jacket in Irving on Thursday evening!

[Zeon Mason]

You have to admire their flawed logic;

Earlene Roberts is "probably one of the least important pieces of evidence we have".... "She said he had his jacket on" and he has no reason to doubt what Roberts said.

Never mind there is no corroboration for it, like the kind he demands for Buell Frazier, and Roberts's employer calls her not credible!

"The fact Oswald was seen throwing the jacket under a car and a jacket was retrieved from there that was identified belonging to him is enough for me."

Never mind that there is no chain of custody to show that the white jacket found under the car is the same as the grey jacket that Oswald owned

Even less so when the DPD dispatcher said;

Wanted for investigation for assault to murder on a police officer: A white male; approximately thirty; about five foot eight; slender build; has black hair; a white jacket; a white shirt and dark trousers. The suspect last seen running west on Jefferson from 400 East Jefferson. 1:24

And the officer (279) calling in the find said;

We believe we've got this suspect on shooting this officer out here. Got his white jacket. Believe he dumped it on this parking lot behind this service station at 400 block East Jefferson across from Dudley Hughes and he had a white jacket on. We believe this is it.

And then;

"So I will concede that no one is on record as having seen Oswald toss the jacket under the car."

So, if nobody saw Oswald leave a jacket under the car, and the suspect was wearing a white shirt (which Oswald didn't) where does that leave him with the "I have no reason to doubt Roberts" BS

And then it comes;

The fact is that Oswald's jacket was found under a car and I think we can conclude it didn't get there by PFM

So a jacket was found under a car and an officer believed it was the suspect's jacket (and wearing a white shirt) is all he has got left!

And it would indeed have been PFM for Oswald's grey jacket (CE 162) to be found under a car in Oak Cliff and being described as white, when there is evidence that places that grey jacket in Irving on Thursday evening!

Not sure we can even conclude that ANY jacket was found under under ANY car in ANY parking lot.
I don’t know how a story that is claimed to have been 1st heard from an unidentified person could be introduced as evidence, but I’m not a lawyer so I’m not sure what the rules  of evidence are. Just seems like hearsay  imo.

[John Corbett]

You have to admire their flawed logic;

Earlene Roberts is "probably one of the least important pieces of evidence we have".... "She said he had his jacket on" and he has no reason to doubt what Roberts said.

Never mind there is no corroboration for it, like the kind he demands for Buell Frazier, and Roberts's employer calls her not credible!

Earlene Roberts isn't important because we have much more compelling evidence than her recollection, namely that the witnesses to the shooting saw him wearing a jacket and HIS jacket was found under a car a short distance away.

"The fact Oswald was seen throwing the jacket under a car and a jacket was retrieved from there that was identified belonging to him is enough for me."

Never mind that there is no chain of custody to show that the white jacket found under the car is the same as the grey jacket that Oswald owned

Right. Maybe Oswald's jacket ended up under the car by PFM.

Even less so when the DPD dispatcher said;

Wanted for investigation for assault to murder on a police officer: A white male; approximately thirty; about five foot eight; slender build; has black hair; a white jacket; a white shirt and dark trousers. The suspect last seen running west on Jefferson from 400 East Jefferson. 1:24

And the officer (279) calling in the find said;

We believe we've got this suspect on shooting this officer out here. Got his white jacket. Believe he dumped it on this parking lot behind this service station at 400 block East Jefferson across from Dudley Hughes and he had a white jacket on. We believe this is it.

And then;

"So I will concede that no one is on record as having seen Oswald toss the jacket under the car."

So, if nobody saw Oswald leave a jacket under the car, and the suspect was wearing a white shirt (which Oswald didn't) where does that leave him with the "I have no reason to doubt Roberts" BS

And then it comes;

The fact is that Oswald's jacket was found under a car and I think we can conclude it didn't get there by PFM

So a jacket was found under a car and an officer believed it was the suspect's jacket (and wearing a white shirt) is all he has got left!

And it would indeed have been PFM for Oswald's grey jacket (CE 162) to be found under a car in Oak Cliff and being described as white, when there is evidence that places that grey jacket in Irving on Thursday evening!

Right. Maybe it is just a coincidence that the jacket that was found under the car had fibers that matched the shirt Oswald was wearing. The same matching fibers were also found on the butt plate of the assassination rifle. But I guess that is all just an amazing coincidence and that Oswald was just the unluckiest SOB that ever lived.

[Martin Weidmann]

Not sure we can even conclude that ANY jacket was found under under ANY car in ANY parking lot.
I don’t know how a story that is claimed to have been 1st heard from an unidentified person could be introduced as evidence, but I’m not a lawyer so I’m not sure what the rules  of evidence are. Just seems like hearsay  imo.

Good point, but don't worry... the LNs are going to go full "It's common sense" to justify them jumping to conclusions from one piece of unauthenticated evidence to the next.

That's about the only thing that makes participating on this forum fun.

As for the jacket;

According to Captain Westbrook a patrol officer who was never identified pointed out a jacket under a car. In radio traffic with the DPD dispatchers this jacket was described as white. This description was of course the result it being seen in bright sunlight. Westbrook then said he gave the white jacket to another unidentified officer before moving on to the Texas Theater.
Then the jacket disappears. We don't know where it was or who had it. When a jacket shows up again, it's at the police station and it has the markings of seven officers on it who never were (or came forward to being) in the chain of custody, and guess what, the jacket was suddenly grey. Go figure!

[Bill Brown]

"And he said look, there's a jacket under the car. He pointed this jacket out to me and it was laying slightly under the rear of one of the cars. I think it was an old Pontiac sitting there, if I remember right. So I walked over and reached under and picked up the jacket." -- Capt. Westbrook