Gov. John Connally Grips His White Stetson Hat at Z-272

[Andrew Mason]

I've given up trying to persuade you. All I can do is point out your silliness.

No. You can't support your arguments.  You say it is impossible for a right to left path exiting on the left side of JFK’s tie knot to miss the back of JBC when he is turned as he is at z193. Without providing any figures or specifying where my model is inaccurate, you throw up your hands and say it is impossible. That’s not a way to attack an argument.  So I can see why you are giving up.

If you were to be serious about challenging my assertion that a shot through JFK’s midline at z193 missed JBC’s back on the left side as being impossible, you would be able to tell us:
1. what the maximum right to left angle of the bullet trajectory is at z193
2. what the maximum distance JFK’s midline is from the right side of the car.
3. what the minimum distance JBC’s right armpit is from the right side of the car
4. the maximim angle that JBC is turned at z193 (please explain how you determine this)
5. the maximum distance between the spines of two men.

My model provides the trajectory based on where the car, rifle, and the two men are at z193. So I have done all that. I can give you all the distances these distances from my model.

[John Corbett]

No. You can't support your arguments.  You say it is impossible for a right to left path exiting on the left side of JFK’s tie knot to miss the back of JBC when he is turned as he is at z193. Without providing any figures or specifying where my model is inaccurate, you throw up your hands and say it is impossible. That’s not a way to attack an argument.  So I can see why you are giving up.

If you were to be serious about challenging my assertion that a shot through JFK’s midline at z193 missed JBC’s back on the left side as being impossible, you would be able to tell us:
1. what the maximum right to left angle of the bullet trajectory is at z193
2. what the maximum distance JFK’s midline is from the right side of the car.
3. what the minimum distance JBC’s right armpit is from the right side of the car
4. the maximim angle that JBC is turned at z193 (please explain how you determine this)
5. the maximum distance between the spines of two men.

My model provides the trajectory based on where the car, rifle, and the two men are at z193. So I have done all that. I can give you all the distances these distances from my model.

Your model does not even pass the eyeball test. Not only do you grossly exaggerate JBC's shoulder turn, you also have him leaning toward the right side of the car to get him out of the way of the bullet exiting JFK's throat. On top of that, you keep his left leg flared out in an unnatural position for someone who you showing making and extreme turn to the right. It is a joke as anyone who compares Z193 to your goofy drawing can easily see. The fact you have to exaggerate JBC's position to make your theory seem possible demonstrates that it is not.

[Andrew Mason]

Your model does not even pass the eyeball test. Not only do you grossly exaggerate JBC's shoulder turn, you also have him leaning toward the right side of the car to get him out of the way of the bullet exiting JFK's throat. On top of that, you keep his left leg flared out in an unnatural position for someone who you showing making and extreme turn to the right. It is a joke as anyone who compares Z193 to your goofy drawing can easily see. The fact you have to exaggerate JBC's position to make your theory seem possible demonstrates that it is not.

If you want to suggest that it is impossible you need to show that what I have portrayed in my model is beyond the range of what is possible. You can’t do that by ball parking. I have JBC’s shoulders turned to a bit less than a 2 o’clock or 60 degree position - certainly past the angle of the forward car direction to the sight line to Zapruder.  What do you determine to be the maximum possible angle he is turned at z193?  And explain why. I have the angle of the bullet relative to the direction of the car at z193 at about 16 degrees.  What do you determine to be the maximum possible angle at z193?  And explain why.  That would be a start.

Then you can start to explain what evidence makes it impossible for JBC to have his left leg out to the side. Try sitting on a seat cushion on the floor and keep your legs together. Hint: you will find it uncomfortable if not painful.

[John Corbett]

If you want to suggest that it is impossible you need to show that what I have portrayed in my model is beyond the range of what is possible. You can’t do that by ball parking. I have JBC’s shoulders turned to a bit less than a 2 o’clock or 60 degree position - certainly past the angle of the forward car direction to the sight line to Zapruder.  What do you determine to be the maximum possible angle he is turned at z193?  And explain why. I have the angle of the bullet relative to the direction of the car at z193 at about 16 degrees.  What do you determine to be the maximum possible angle at z193?  And explain why.  That would be a start.

Then you can start to explain what evidence makes it impossible for JBC to have his left leg out to the side. Try sitting on a seat cushion on the floor and keep your legs together. Hint: you will find it uncomfortable if not painful.

I don't need to do anything. Your drawing is so absurd it refutes itself. You don't need my help.

[Andrew Mason]

I don't need to do anything. Your drawing is so absurd it refutes itself. You don't need my help.

Since you are unable to explain the alleged absurdity with a rational, evidence based argument, there are two possible reasons: 1. There is no rational, evidence based explanation to support your claim or 2. laziness. I know it is not due to laziness.

[Tom Graves]

Since you are unable to explain the alleged absurdity with a rational, evidence based argument, there are two possible reasons: 1. There is no rational, evidence based explanation to support your claim or 2. laziness. I know it is not due to laziness.

Did the people who heard your Z-190-ish and the Z-313 shots describe them as being "Bang-Bang," "a couple of seconds apart," or how, exactly?

[Andrew Mason]

Did the people who heard your Z-190-ish and the Z-313 shots describe them as being "Bang-Bang," "a couple of seconds apart," or how, exactly?

The vast majority of those who recalled the shot spacing said there was a longish pause after the first shot, followed by two more shots closer together but still distinct shots.  Some of those said the space ratio was about 2:1. e.g. Robert Jackson, Sen. Ralph Yarborough, Forrest Sorrels.