Gov. John Connally Grips His White Stetson Hat at Z-272

[Zeon Mason]

Where did JC  hold his hat upside with his right hand if JC had his left hand gripping his lower right ankle as the green shirt guy in the  photo?

The left  hand is taking up the space between the legs, and if the right leg and thigh are close to the right door , I don’t see where there’s enough room for the right hand  to hold the  Stetson Hat upside down.

Maybe  have the green shirt guy hold a Stetson hat upside down and try some other position and post that or make another drawing for those of us trying to imagine it in our minds.

And if possible show the position that JC s body was in during the Z frames from 270-275  and make a diagram of the trajectory of this 2nd shot   because I’m having a problem envisioning how the bullet traversed thru JCs back, exited his chest , and was aligned to go thru JCs right wrist without going thru his hat (since it’s still being held upside down).

And after that 270ish bullet exited JCs wrist bone where did THAT bullet go?

I’d need to see an experiment conducted with some more replica human models before I would believe that a Z193 1st shot CE 399 bullet bypassing the mass of JCs body , hence traveling probably still at 1500ft/sec (or even greater) ) would have come to a complete stop in JCs left thigh.

And what about the % of missing metal from the nose of CE 399? Theres no evidence ( as far as WC that is) of any flakes of metal found in JCs thigh muscle or thigh bone, so….

Perhaps if the Z 193 1st shot shot was a tangential strike to the flesh part of JCs inner  left thigh and then continued on, the bullet could have gone thru the front seat and into the front floorboard. If that’s the case then that might explain missing % of metal from the nose of CE 399.

EXCEPT..  how can that be possible if the WC conclusion is correct that the missing % of metal from the nose of CE 399 was due to having passed thru JCs wrist bone.?

[Andrew Mason]

Where did JC  hold his hat upside with his right hand if JC had his left hand gripping his lower right ankle as the green shirt guy in the  photo?

I am not suggesting that JBC held his ankle. He had the side of the door to lean his leg against.  My stand-in found he couldn’t hold a turn to the right without having something to hold his right leg in. The natural position in the floor mounted seat - at least for a male - is not to have the legs together.  We found that, by turning right and holding the right leg the left leg was in that position naturally.
 

Maybe  have the green shirt guy hold a Stetson hat upside down and try some other position and post that or make another drawing for those of us trying to imagine it in our minds.

The position of the hat has nothing to do with a shot going to the left side.

And if possible show the position that JC s body was in during the Z frames from 270-275  and make a diagram of the trajectory of this 2nd shot   because I’m having a problem envisioning how the bullet traversed thru JCs back, exited his chest , and was aligned to go thru JCs right wrist without going thru his hat (since it’s still being held upside down).

The trajectory from the SN through JBC is not a straight line at z271-272. For a bullet from the SN at z271, the path from the entry wound location to the exit wound location requires a bit of a deflection to the right

The forceful impact in the back that JBC felt means there was a sudden change in momentum, which is consistent with a sudden change in direction caused by the bullet impacting the fifth rib.  The impact caused the fifth rib to fracture at the spine which suggests that the rib was pushed in significantly before the bullet penetrated through the rib destroying the last 10 cm of the rib before exiting.

If one turns around to the rear as JBC did from z228-z270, the torso twists. The shoulders turn more than the upper chest and the upper chest turns more that the lower ribs and hips.  As a result, the location of the right nipple in relation to the shoulders changes. Just try turning like that and watch the location of the right nipple move right. 

If the bullet had not been deflected right, it would have passed through the right lung, which it did not do.  It followed the fifth rib initially around the pleural cavity and then passed through the last 10 cm of rib driving shards of rib into the pleural cavity and lower  lung.

And after that 270ish bullet exited JCs wrist bone where did THAT bullet go?

According to the evidence of Tague it fragmented and at least one of the fragments went up over the windshield and struck the curb near him and deflected up to strike his cheek.  Other fragments struck the windshield and frame. Greer said he sensed a concussion effect on the second shot as if something impacted in the car.  He did not notice such an effect on the other two shots.

I’d need to see an experiment conducted with some more replica human models before I would believe that a Z193 1st shot CE 399 bullet bypassing the mass of JCs body , hence traveling probably still at 1500ft/sec (or even greater) ) would have come to a complete stop in JCs left thigh.

I agree. But I am not suggesting that it came to a stop in his thigh.

And what about the % of missing metal from the nose of CE 399? Theres no evidence ( as far as WC that is) of any flakes of metal found in JCs thigh muscle or thigh bone, so…

There was no metal missing from the nose of CE399.  There was a small piece of lead in his thigh but that would have been from the butt end.

Perhaps if the Z 193 1st shot shot was a tangential strike to the flesh part of JCs inner  left thigh and then continued on, the bullet could have gone thru the front seat and into the front floorboard. If that’s the case then that might explain missing % of metal from the nose of CE 399.

EXCEPT..  how can that be possible if the WC conclusion is correct that the missing % of metal from the nose of CE 399 was due to having passed thru JCs wrist bone.?

Again, there was no metal missing from the nose of CE399.

[John Corbett]

That is a popular view. But it is not accurate.  Rapid injuries are often not felt unless they cause loss of function or make a forceful impact on bone.  A flesh wound in an extremity is often not felt immediately. Here is a woman who was shot and never felt the bullet pass through her chest:


In this case, JBC never felt it.
So you don't like my drawing.  How about the picture showing the path from a position 24 inches behind and to the right of the midline of the JBC stand-in and turned not even as far as JBC in z193?

Your drawing looks nothing like the photo. The guy in the green shirt has his left shoulder farther back and farther to the left. Your drawing shows JBC's shoulder moved way forward and in front of the middle of the seat and even with that exaggerated turn, you create barely enough room for the bullet to pass his left side. If you your drawing showed JBC in the same position as the green shirt guy, the line to the thigh wound would have gone through JBC's left siide.

How can you say that the path is not possible? That is absurd:
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It's easy. I just say, "That's impossible".[/td][/tr][/table]

[Tom Graves]

Part of the Texas Lore of the JFKA is that Gov. John Connally kept his grip on his white Stetson cowboy hat, even after being shot through the wrist, by the same bullet that first passed through President JFK's neck, then through JBC's chest, and only then through JBC's wrist. The same whole slug burrowed into JBC's thigh (and somehow mysteriously ended up on a hospital gurney, or below the gurney, several floors below JBC's operating room, by the WC version). That is C-399. Quite the adventurous bullet!

Nellie Connally said her husband held on onto his Stetson cowboy hat all the way to the Parkland hospital, although Nellie Connally also said the assassin's first shot struck JFK, the second hit JBC, and the third hit JFK. Such are the perils of citing JFKA witnesses, for SBT'ers and LN'ers alike. 

On a more authoritative note, Cyril Wecht, (now deceased) a renowned forensic pathologist and longtime critic of the Warren Commission (WC), maintained that it was physically and neurologically impossible for Connally to have maintained a grip on his hat if the "Magic Bullet" (Commission Exhibit 399) had actually shattered his radius bone, as the WC claimed.

The WC was, or course, was required to accept the Texas Lore, given that it had committed to the SBT, which meant that JBC was shot ~Z-223.

The WC version is, well, dubious:

"The SBT bullet entered the dorsal (back) side of his right wrist (thumb side), shattered the distal radius bone, and exited on the palm side. This path damaged nearby structures, including a partial transection of a dorsal branch of the radial nerve and a tendon leading to the thumb.

Dr. Charles F. Gregory (the orthopedic surgeon who operated on the wrist) noted this during the procedure. The Warren Commission Report explicitly references the "partial cutting of a radial nerve and tendon" as evidence that the bullet was already tumbling/yawed (not pristine), as it caught and tore these structures rather than pushing them aside."

OK, to reprise, the WC maintains JBC was shot through the right wrist ~Z-223, but was still holding onto his Stetson hat at Z-272.

Layman's view: I have never had a wrist shattered by a bullet. I was struck on the wrist hard enough (in an industrial mishap) once to leave bone bruises, or contusions, on my wrist. Yes bones can bruise and swell. The blow struck the dorsal side on the wrist. I could not have held onto my baseball cap through that experience, had I been holding one. I never had a Stetson.

Yet here is Gov. JBC at Z-272 still holding onto the Stetson, after having been shot through the wrst (and the chest).:



Note that JBC has made a near 180-degree in his seat, despite having been shot through the chest (by the SBT version). JBC is checking up on JFK, after hearing the first shot, JBC said. Those darn witnesses!

Side note: The telltale smell of gun smoke hung in the air in the GK area in the immediate aftermath of the JFKA.

This gun smoke could not have been from LHO's M-C, as the breeze was blowing from the GK towards to the TSBD---that is proven beyond dispute by women's skirts and coats fluttering in the wind.

Conclusion: The SBT strikes me as dubious.

The WC was driven towards the LN explanation by LBJ's fear that LHO-KGB-G2 connections could trigger a nuclear war. LBJ said so himself. For you younger folks, in the 1960s talk of nuclear war was nearly a daily event, especially during the CMC-1962. The possibility of a nuclear war seemed real, nearly tangible. Students practiced nuclear war drills once a week (that includes me!). Sears Roebuck started building bomb shelters under new stores in the early 1960s. Nelson Rockefeller floated a plan to finance every homeowner in America building bomb shelters under their houses.

WC members Russell, Boggs, Cooper all later said they disagreed with the WC conclusions.

The Texas Lore that JBC held onto his Texas Stetson Hat ...well, not sure about that. I lived in Texas in the late 1970s. Texas Lore and state pride are big things, and so are Stetson cowboy hats.

ME: Are there any documented cases of anyone other than Governor Connally being able to continue grasping something in their hand after being shot in the wrist?

GROK: Yes, there are documented medical and trauma cases (beyond Governor John Connally’s well-known wrist wound during the 1963 JFK assassination) where individuals retained the ability to grasp or hold objects after a gunshot wound (GSW) to the wrist/hand. Connally’s case involved a bullet causing a compound fracture of his right wrist (and minor sensory nerve damage only) while he continued clutching his Stetson hat in the Zapruder film and afterward, until he reached the hospital. Critics have called this implausible, but medical evidence shows wrist GSWs frequently do not eliminate grip function, especially with low-velocity bullets that cause fractures or limited soft-tissue damage without fully severing the flexor tendons or major motor nerves controlling finger flexion and grip (these originate in the forearm and pass through the wrist).

Gunshot wounds to the hand and wrist are common in both civilian and military trauma, and large studies from urban trauma centers show that major nerve or vascular disruptions (which would most impair grip) occur in only a minority of cases—around 11% for nerve discontinuity and 8% for vascular issues. Most patients present with fractures (often metacarpal or phalangeal) but retain enough neurovascular integrity for functional grip, at least initially, due to adrenaline, incomplete damage, or preserved flexor tendons. Many achieve good long-term hand function without amputation or major reconstruction.

Specific documented examples include:

Case reports of immediate post-injury preserved function: In a 2022 case of a non-fatal GSW to the hand/wrist with an open fracture, the patient had a clean entrance wound with no visible bone, tendon, or neurovascular exposure. Neurovascular function of the hand was intact on exam right after the injury; the wound was irrigated, dressed, and splinted in the ED, and the patient recovered full range of motion without infection or loss of grip capability.

Severe wrist GSW with long-term preserved grasping: A 26-year-old man suffered a high-energy GSW to the wrist causing an open comminuted fracture of the distal radius with 8 cm bone loss and infection. Extensor tendons were destroyed and unrepairable, but the flexor tendons were preserved. Despite inability to extend the wrist and reduced power grip, he retained finger flexion (MCP joints 0–45°, IP joints 0–60°). Eight years later, he could perform fine motor tasks (picking up coins, buttoning shirts) and functional gripping/holding (writing, feeding himself, carrying heavy items, and driving a motorcycle by holding/turning the throttle) with the injured hand.

Forensic and law-enforcement contexts also show people retaining grip on objects (guns, knives) after arm/hand shots in dynamic situations, though outcomes depend on exact bullet path and damage. For instance, in one analyzed homicide case involving multiple GSWs (including one through the wrist/hand holding a knife), pathologists and experts debated whether natural grip could be maintained post-shot due to compromised structures—but the anatomical possibility exists when damage is limited (as in Connally’s sensory-only nerve injury).

In short, Connally’s experience aligns with established trauma patterns: a wrist shot often causes pain, fracture, and swelling but does not automatically destroy the ability to clutch a light object (or even perform functional grips) if key flexor structures remain intact. This is routinely seen in emergency medicine, orthopedic case reports, and forensic analyses of GSWs. Outcomes vary by bullet type/velocity, exact trajectory, and prompt care, but preserved grasp is well-documented and not medically anomalous.

ME: Can you give me some names?

GROK: Specific named individuals are rare in public medical literature due to privacy rules (HIPAA in the US, etc.), so most published case reports use anonymous descriptions like age, gender, and injury details. However, here are some documented examples from trauma studies and case reports where patients retained meaningful hand/wrist function or grip capability after gunshot wounds (GSWs) to the area—often with fractures but preserved flexor tendons, partial nerve sparing, or recovery allowing grasping/holding:23-year-old right-handed man (Patient 1 in a 2024/2025 Journal of Hand Surgery Global Online case series): Sustained multiple low-velocity GSWs to the right hand (including comminuted fracture of the second metacarpal head involving the metacarpophalangeal/MCP joint). No major tendinous or neurovascular disruption noted initially. Treated with irrigation and later pyrocarbon hemi-arthroplasty for joint salvage. At 9-month follow-up, he had good range of motion (MCP arc ~70°, PIP ~110°, DIP ~80°), returned to work without restrictions, no chronic pain, and resolved neuropraxia—indicating preserved functional grip and daily hand use.

50-year-old right-handed man (Patient 2 in the same series): Accidental GSW to the left fourth metacarpal with comminution extending into the MCP joint. Underwent initial fixation, then silicone arthroplasty after subsidence. At 9 months, similar good outcomes: returned to work unrestricted, no daily limitations, with MCP arc ~85°, and functional motion for grasping/holding tasks.

18-year-old male (Cureus 2022 case report by Taylor Brown et al.): Presented with a GSW to the hand/wrist causing an open fracture. Neurovascular function was intact on initial exam; the wound was managed conservatively outpatient with irrigation, antibiotics, dressing, and splinting. He achieved recovery of full range of motion without infection or major loss of grip capability.

Broader studies (e.g., a Washington University review of 249 wrist/hand GSW victims, 2016–2019) note that while fractures are common (~majority of cases), nerve discontinuity occurs in only ~11% and vascular issues in ~8%. Many patients retain initial function and achieve good long-term outcomes with treatment, consistent with preserved grasping in lower-energy injuries.

In forensic contexts, it's not uncommon for individuals to retain grip on weapons post-wrist/arm GSW (cadaveric and case analyses support this when key flexors aren't fully severed), though specific victim names are seldom publicized.

These align with Connally's experience (compound wrist fracture with minor nerve damage but continued clutching his hat). Outcomes depend heavily on bullet velocity/energy, trajectory, and prompt care—high-velocity military rounds cause more destruction than typical civilian handguns.

ME: Assuming that the bullet (CE-399) that struck Connally's wrist was the same one that had penetrated JFK's upper-chest / lower-neck and transited his body, approximately how fast was it travelling when it struck his wrist?

GROK: Approximately 800–1,100 feet per second (fps), most commonly estimated in the 900 fps range (subsonic) when it struck and fractured Connally’s right radius bone.

This assumes the single-bullet theory (SBT) path for CE-399: fired from Oswald’s Carcano rifle (muzzle velocity 2,100–2,200 fps for the 6.5mm Western Carcano load), traveling ~180–190 feet to JFK (1,700–2,000 fps impact on JFK), passing through JFK’s upper back/neck (losing ~100–300 fps, mostly soft tissue with minimal bone involvement), exiting his throat at roughly 1,500 fps while beginning to yaw/tumble, then striking Connally ~2–3 feet ahead.

Key velocity estimates from official tests and analyses:Warren Commission / Army Wound Ballistics (1964): Tests with the actual rifle showed ~1,858–1,904 fps striking velocity at ~70 yards for wrist simulations (pristine bullets). They concluded Connally’s wrist was not hit by a pristine bullet at that speed, as it would have caused more damage. Instead, the bullet was already yawing (tumbling) and slowed, consistent with prior passage through JFK. Chest passage through Connally was estimated to cost ~265–400 fps (more due to yaw and rib shatter). Wrist impact was thus much lower than a direct ~1,800+ fps shot.

Wikipedia/SBT reconstructions: Post-JFK throat ~1,500 fps (tumbling) → Connally back/chest → exits chest → ~900 fps (subsonic) entering the wrist (shattering radius, depositing tiny fragments) → further slowing to ~400 fps for the shallow thigh wound.

Other analyses (e.g., Martin Fackler ballistics tests on cadavers, various SBT defenders): ~1,000–1,100 fps (or 1,300–1,400 fps in some chest-exit estimates) when entering the wrist—enough to fracture bone but consistent with the observed limited damage and CE-399’s condition (minimal deformation beyond base flattening and slight lead extrusion).

These figures come from exterior ballistics (drag over distance, ballistic coefficient 0.28 for the bullet), wound profiles, and gel/cadaver/animal tissue tests. High-velocity FMJ bullets like this lose energy gradually in soft tissue but more rapidly when yawing or hitting bone. A direct wrist hit at near-muzzle speed (1,800+ fps) would have caused far more destruction than observed.

Critics of the SBT argue the bullet couldn’t have retained enough integrity or produced exactly these wounds at the implied speeds/angles, while proponents (including later computer models and reenactments) say the numbers align with the evidence. Exact velocity depends on precise assumptions about JFK–Connally alignment, bullet yaw, and tissue resistance, but 900 fps (±~200 fps) is the consensus ballpark for the wrist strike under SBT assumptions.

[Tom Graves]

Part of the Texas Lore of the JFKA is that Gov. John Connally kept his grip on his white Stetson cowboy hat, even after being shot through the wrist, by the same bullet that first passed through President JFK's neck, then through JBC's chest, and only then through JBC's wrist. The same whole slug burrowed into JBC's thigh (and somehow mysteriously ended up on a hospital gurney, or below the gurney, several floors below JBC's operating room, by the WC version). That is C-399. Quite the adventurous bullet!

Nellie Connally said her husband held on onto his Stetson cowboy hat all the way to the Parkland hospital, although Nellie Connally also said the assassin's first shot struck JFK, the second hit JBC, and the third hit JFK. Such are the perils of citing JFKA witnesses, for SBT'ers and LN'ers alike. 

On a more authoritative note, Cyril Wecht, (now deceased) a renowned forensic pathologist and longtime critic of the Warren Commission (WC), maintained that it was physically and neurologically impossible for Connally to have maintained a grip on his hat if the "Magic Bullet" (Commission Exhibit 399) had actually shattered his radius bone, as the WC claimed.

The WC was, or course, was required to accept the Texas Lore, given that it had committed to the SBT, which meant that JBC was shot ~Z-223.

The WC version is, well, dubious:

"The SBT bullet entered the dorsal (back) side of his right wrist (thumb side), shattered the distal radius bone, and exited on the palm side. This path damaged nearby structures, including a partial transection of a dorsal branch of the radial nerve and a tendon leading to the thumb.

Dr. Charles F. Gregory (the orthopedic surgeon who operated on the wrist) noted this during the procedure. The Warren Commission Report explicitly references the "partial cutting of a radial nerve and tendon" as evidence that the bullet was already tumbling/yawed (not pristine), as it caught and tore these structures rather than pushing them aside."

OK, to reprise, the WC maintains JBC was shot through the right wrist ~Z-223, but was still holding onto his Stetson hat at Z-272.

Layman's view: I have never had a wrist shattered by a bullet. I was struck on the wrist hard enough (in an industrial mishap) once to leave bone bruises, or contusions, on my wrist. Yes bones can bruise and swell. The blow struck the dorsal side on the wrist. I could not have held onto my baseball cap through that experience, had I been holding one. I never had a Stetson.

Yet here is Gov. JBC at Z-272 still holding onto the Stetson, after having been shot through the wrst (and the chest).:



Note that JBC has made a near 180-degree in his seat, despite having been shot through the chest (by the SBT version). JBC is checking up on JFK, after hearing the first shot, JBC said. Those darn witnesses!

Side note: The telltale smell of gunsmoke hung in the air in the GK area in the immediate aftermath of the JFKA.

This gunsmoke could not have been from LHO's M-C, as the breeze was blowing from the GK towards to the TSBD---that is proven beyond dispute by women's skirts and coats fluttering in the wind.

Conclusion: The SBT strikes me as dubious.

The WC was driven towards the LN explanation by LBJ's fear that LHO-KGB-G2 connections could trigger a nuclear war. LBJ said so himself. For you younger folks, in the 1960s talk of nuclear war was nearly a daily event, especially during the CMC-1962. The possibility of a nuclear war seemed real, nearly tangible. Students practiced nuclear war drills once a week (that includes me!). Sears Roebuck started building bomb shelters under new stores in the early 1960s. Nelson Rockefeller floated a plan to finance every homeowner in America building bomb shelters under their houses.

WC members Russell, Boggs, Cooper all later said they disagreed with the WC conclusions.

The Texas Lore that JBC held onto his Texas Stetson Hat ...well, not sure about that. I lived in Texas in the late 1970s. Texas Lore and state pride are big things, and so are Stetson cowboy hats.

Either your logic sucks, or you aren't very good at expressing yourself.

Which is it?