Gov. John Connally Grips His White Stetson Hat at Z-272

[Andrew Mason]

Ok so you  propose a Z190-193(approx ) shot hit JFK in the back and exited his throat and then bypassed JCs back entirely and the bullet came to rest in JCs left thigh yes?

CE399 definitely caused the thigh wound but there is not enough evidence to determine where it ended up.  While some of the medical evidence suggests it did not penetrate far, that was not what Dr. Shires said.  He operated on the wound and removed damaged tissue down to the femur.  He also said that the xrays of JBC’s left thigh showed a small lead fragment embedded in the femur. The fragment is visible in the xray front and side views. 

Dr. Gregory observed the thigh wound and said it was a punctate wound that looked like it was made by the butt end of an intact missile. That is quite different than the description he provided of the missile that struck the radius which Gregory described as an irregularly shaped missile.

So, it may be that CE399 stayed in the wound. Or, because it was a very oblique strike by a tumbling bullet, likely rapidly tumbling, it may have tumbled out of the wound and struck something at low speed and bounced back onto JBC. There is also the possibility that it bounced back onto the back seat. That is based the recent (but completely uncorroborated) statement by SA Landis that he picked up a whole bullet from the back seat and later placed it on JFK’s stretcher.

A. How do you account for the thigh wound being shallow if the momentum of the CE 399 bullet passing thru JFKs back and throat was not reduced by very much, thus probably still traveling at 1500 ft/ sec when it would have entered the thigh of JC?

I suggest that the bullet after exiting JFK’s neck, striking the tie, tumbling, striking the thigh butt-first and leaving lead from its base embedded in the femur   and a wound that damaged tissue down to the femur did not make a shallow wound.

Your drawing to demonstrate how you think JCs body position was at Z190-193 looks like an extremely difficult twisted torso position that one has wonder if an older man like JC would even have been able to twist his upper body around that much while still leaving his left leg hanging to the left of his lower buttocks.

Connally was a healthy 46 year old. I don’t know of any evidence to suggest that he couldn’t do what he is seen doing in the zfilm at z193.  He is turned around much more than that by z255.

D.Can you prove from Z frames Z190-Z193  that JCs shoulder line is rotated to his right at greater than a 45% angle as your drawing appears to be showing?

Connally is turned so his chest is facing to the left of Zapruder. Zapruder was 31 degrees to the car direction at z193. It looks to me like JBC’s shoulders are turned to about a 2 o’clock position relative to the car.  What do you say?

E. Can you demonstrate  how JFK and  JCs  bodys were positioned in Z frames Z270-75 so that the 2nd bullet passed by JFKs body completely yet hit JC as he leaned over and the bullet  struck JCs wrist bone entering backwards and where that bullet went after exiting his wrist?

JFK is leaning forward and to the left after the neck shot.  Dave Powers sitting directly behind JFK said that JFK moved far left after first shot. He said that left JBC visible until the second shot when he disappeared.  There is no question that a bullet passing just to the right of JFK could have struck JBC.

As far as the wrist wound is concerned, his right arm is pronated do that the back of his forearm is facing the chest right where the bullet exited.  The damage done to the wrist indicates that the bullet deflected off the radius leaving a very long and irregular hole in the french cuff. There is also evidence it fragmented.  Greer said he sensed a concussion on the second shot as if it hit something in the car. There was damage to the top of the windshield frame. Tague said he was hit on the second shot.

[John Corbett]

I looked at the shot jiggles at various point in the Zapruder Film and found that up to and including the headshot, Zapruder had 3 vertical jumps. And working backwards from the obvious headshot which confirmed the vertical jiggle a few frames later, next we have the SBF jiggle happening a few frames after Kennedy and Connally simultaneously react and then we come to the first jiggle which can be confirmed by Rosemary Willis hearing a gunshot and slowing down, and we also have the testimony from Connally that states he heard a gunshot and turned to look over his right shoulder. We can also see Kennedy's quick head snap to the right.

Zapruder also has some horizontal panning corrections which result in what appear to be horizontal jiggles but by studying the frames after the headshot and the SBF, we know how Zapruder reacted to the sounds of gunshots.







JohnM

Nice work. I've looked at the blurring following what I believe to be the time of each of the three shots but I hadn't thought to look at the vertical jump in those frames. What you have posted confirms most of what I have believed. It appears to be there is a blur caused by the vertical jump approximately 7 frames after each shot was fired, not after when it struck because the latter would vary due to the distance the shots traveled. You have caused me to rethink my theory of a shot fired at Z151 which I based on the severe blurring of Z158. I formulated this theory years ago. Apparently, I overlooked Z155 is equally blurred and shows the jump from Z154. It seems to me now that the first shot could well have been fired 7 frames earlier than Z155 at Z148. A minor adjustment to make based on evidence I wasn't previously aware of. Analysis of the jiggles isn't proof positive but it does have some probative value.

[John Corbett]

CE399 definitely caused the thigh wound but there is not enough evidence to determine where it ended up.  While some of the medical evidence suggests it did not penetrate far, that was not what Dr. Shires said.  He operated on the wound and removed damaged tissue down to the femur.  He also said that the xrays of JBC’s left thigh showed a small lead fragment embedded in the femur. The fragment is visible in the xray front and side views. 

Pure nonsense. CE399 is that bullet that caused the thigh wound but only after passing through JFK's torso AND JBC's torso AND shattering his rib AND shattering his wrist. Had it gone directly from JFK's throat to JBC's thigh it would have done one of two things. If it hit his femur, it would have shattered it. If it missed his femur it would have gone completely through the soft tissue of his thigh and into the car seat beneath it. Neither of those happened which invalidates your theory.

Dr. Gregory observed the thigh wound and said it was a punctate wound that looked like it was made by the butt end of an intact missile. That is quite different than the description he provided of the missile that struck the radius which Gregory described as an irregularly shaped missile.

Gregory should have stayed in his lane. He was neither a ballistics expert nor a forensic medical examiner.

So, it may be that CE399 stayed in the wound. Or, because it was a very oblique strike by a tumbling bullet, likely rapidly tumbling, it may have tumbled out of the wound and struck something at low speed and bounced back onto JBC. There is also the possibility that it bounced back onto the back seat. That is based the recent (but completely uncorroborated) statement by SA Landis that he picked up a whole bullet from the back seat and later placed it on JFK’s stretcher.

Now there's a magic bullet

I suggest that the bullet after exiting JFK’s neck, striking the tie, tumbling, striking the thigh butt-first and leaving lead from its base embedded in the femur   and a wound that damaged tissue down to the femur did not make a shallow wound.
Connally was a healthy 46 year old. I don’t know of any evidence to suggest that he couldn’t do what he is seen doing in the zfilm at z193.  He is turned around much more than that by z255.

The bullet neither shatteredd JBC's femur nor did it pass through his thigh so it could not possibly have come directly from JFK's throat.

Connally is turned so his chest is facing to the left of Zapruder. Zapruder was 31 degrees to the car direction at z193. It looks to me like JBC’s shoulders are turned to about a 2 o’clock position relative to the car.  What do you say?

Robin Unger's enhanced Z193 frame shows JBC's shoulders weren't turned anywhere close to what they are in your silly drawing which further invalidates your magic bullet theory

JFK is leaning forward and to the left after the neck shot.  Dave Powers sitting directly behind JFK said that JFK moved far left after first shot. He said that left JBC visible until the second shot when he disappeared.  There is no question that a bullet passing just to the right of JFK could have struck JBC.

...and then magically disappeared. Your theory requires two magic bullets.

As far as the wrist wound is concerned, his right arm is pronated do that the back of his forearm is facing the chest right where the bullet exited.  The damage done to the wrist indicates that the bullet deflected off the radius leaving a very long and irregular hole in the french cuff. There is also evidence it fragmented.  Greer said he sensed a concussion on the second shot as if it hit something in the car. There was damage to the top of the windshield frame. Tague said he was hit on the second shot.

The second shot hit a lot of somethings in the car like JFK's back, his throat, his necktie, JBC's back, his rib, his wrist, and his thigh. The damage to the windshield was caused by a fragment from the head shot. How does a bullet go from JBCs wrist through the car seat in front of him, through Kellerman in order to hit the windshield.

The questions Zeon and I have presented you with are questions you should have been asking yourself about your silly theory which I think I first saw about 18 years ago on McAdams' forum. If you had, you would have realized it doesn't hold water and you would have abandoned it. Instead you try to bend and twist the evidence to make it work. By trying to drive this square peg into a round hole, you show you are not interested in knowing the truth. You are a person who wants your theory to be true.

[Andrew Mason]

Pure nonsense. CE399 is that bullet that caused the thigh wound but only after passing through JFK's torso AND JBC's torso AND shattering his rib AND shattering his wrist. Had it gone directly from JFK's throat to JBC's thigh it would have done one of two things. If it hit his femur, it would have shattered it.

To my knowledge no expert has even considered a scenario in which the bullet through JFK then struck just the thigh.  The trajectory was along the femur so it struck at a shallow angle to the femur bone. The femur is the strongest bone in the body so I don’t know on what basis one could say that a partially spent bullet, tumbling end over end then striking the thigh butt first on a shallow angle striking the femur and making a dent in the base on one side would result in a shattering of the femur.

The second shot hit a lot of somethings in the car like JFK's back, his throat, his necktie, JBC's back, his rib, his wrist, and his thigh. The damage to the windshield was caused by a fragment from the head shot. How does a bullet go from JBCs wrist through the car seat in front of him, through Kellerman in order to hit the windshield.

The better question might be: how does a bullet strike the back of the radius with enough force to break pieces of the radius (but not put a hole through the radius) and not deflect away from the point of contact?

The evidence is that Greer sensed an impact in the car on the second shot and Tague was struck on the second shot. 

The questions Zeon and I have presented you with are questions you should have been asking yourself about your silly theory which I think I first saw about 18 years ago on McAdams' forum. If you had, you would have realized it doesn't hold water and you would have abandoned it. Instead you try to bend and twist the evidence to make it work. By trying to drive this square peg into a round hole, you show you are not interested in knowing the truth. You are a person who wants your theory to be true.

My only contention is that the large bodies of mutually consistent witness evidence all fits together and cannot be rejected. I wouldn’t call that a theory. It is what the witnesses independently recalled happened: JFK was struck by the first shot; the first shot was after z186: the last two shots were closer together and in fairly rapid succession. There is no conflict between that evidence and one person firing all shots with Oswald’s rifle.  There is no conflict between that evidence and the zfilm.  There is no conflict between that evidence and the physical evidence

[John Corbett]

To my knowledge no expert has even considered a scenario in which the bullet through JFK then struck just the thigh.

That alone should tell you something

 

The trajectory was along the femur so it struck at a shallow angle to the femur bone. The femur is the strongest bone in the body so I don’t know on what basis one could say that a partially spent bullet, tumbling end over end then striking the thigh butt first on a shallow angle striking the femur and making a dent in the base on one side would result in a shattering of the femur.
The better question might be: how does a bullet strike the back of the radius with enough force to break pieces of the radius (but not put a hole through the radius) and not deflect away from the point of contact?

CE399 showed how that happened.

The evidence is that Greer sensed an impact in the car on the second shot and Tague was struck on the second shot. 
 My only contention is that the large bodies of mutually consistent witness evidence all fits together and cannot be rejected. I wouldn’t call that a theory. It is what the witnesses independently recalled happened: JFK was struck by the first shot; the first shot was after z186: the last two shots were closer together and in fairly rapid succession. There is no conflict between that evidence and one person firing all shots with Oswald’s rifle.  There is no conflict between that evidence and the zfilm.  There is no conflict between that evidence and the physical evidence

Your fixation on eyewitnesses while ignoring the hard evidence continues to prevent you from knowing the truth of the assassination. There is nothing about your theory that is the least bit compatible with the Z-film. Robin Unger's enhanced Z193 frame shows just how ridiculous your drawing is of how JBC would have to be turned for your scenario to hold water. I would estimate there is at lease a 60 degree difference in the turn of JBC's shoulder between the Z-frame and your drawing. It is preposterous.

[Andrew Mason]

That alone should tell you somethingCE399 showed how that happened.

Yes. It tells me that everyone assumed that JBC was hit by only one bullet.

Your fixation on eyewitnesses while ignoring the hard evidence continues to prevent you from knowing the truth of the assassination.

Statistical corroboration of witnesses is used by the CIA, Mossad, MI5 and every other successful intelligence agency all the time.  They gather information from various sources and determine facts.  Although each piece is individually is not reliable, when the pieces all fit together they are extremely reliable.   That is all I am doing.

If the 9 pages of witness recollections I provided, which fit with the 20+ witness recollections that JFK reacted to the first shot in ways not seen until after z193, which fit together with the motorcade witnesses, Betzner, Phil Willis, Linda Willis, Altgens, Hickey, Greer, and the witnesses along Elm who stated where JFK was in relation to where they were standing at the time of the first shot, were independent, the only rational conclusion is that the last two shots were close together, JFK reacted to the first shot and the first shot was after z186.  In fact the way the three bodies fit together with the zfilm (there is a five second time difference between JFK showing signs of being hit so that must be the first shot according to the shot spacing witnesses. And that fits all the 20+ who said that JFK reacted that way to the first shot.  And that fits with where the witnesses in the motorcade, Elm St. witnesses, photographers etc put the first shot: i.e. after z186) tells you that the witnesses are independent.

There is nothing about your theory that is the least bit compatible with the Z-film. Robin Unger's enhanced Z193 frame shows just how ridiculous your drawing is of how JBC would have to be turned for your scenario to hold water.
I would estimate there is at least a 60 degree difference in the turn of JBC's shoulder between the Z-frame and your drawing. It is preposterous.

? At z193, JBC's shoulders are turned right so that his chest is facing left the sightline from Zapruder, which is 30 degrees. For that to be 60 degrees too far right, you must think JBC is facing to the left of forward in z193.