Gov. John Connally Grips His White Stetson Hat at Z-272

[David Von Pein]

Are you arguing for a first shot at Z190? How do you explain why JFK didn't raise his hands to in front of his throat until almost two second later?

 

"Yes, in my opinion, the HSCA was most certainly incorrect in its assessment that JFK was showing signs of being struck by a bullet as early as Zapruder frame 190. And I think the proof that the HSCA was dead wrong about that timing issue can be found later in that same Zapruder Film, in frames 224 thru 226. Because if Kennedy was hit as early as Z190, then there's no way we'd be seeing JFK doing what he's doing with the hands as late as Z226. That jerking upward of his hands would certainly have occurred well prior to Z226 if he had been hit as early as Z190." -- DVP; May 5, 2024

https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/30407-favorite-author-jim-dieugenio-favorite-researcher-pat-speer/page/3/#findComment-535251

[Robin Unger]

Zapruder GIF

[Robin Unger]

Connally says he was hit in Frame: Z-234

Frame from JFK  the movie:

[Andrew Mason]

Not a single one of the 8 items you listed are evidence. They are your arguments. I'm not surprised you don't know the difference.

Well, I gave you 9 pages of the evidence that the last two shots were closer together than the first two. I am not going to do that every time I mention it. I am just going to refer to the body of evidence bearing this out. Do you not agree that this large body of evidence set out in those 9 pages is evidence of the 1......2.
..3 shot pattern? Ditto for the 20+ witnesses that said JFN reacted to the first shot and the other 7 bodies of evidence.

Are you arguing for a first shot at Z190? How do you explain why JFK didn't raise his hands to in front of his throat until almost two second later? taking two seconds before taking a breath.

What is the normal reaction to being shot through the neck?

The change starts at z193-194. By z222 he has moved left and his hands are clenched in front of him. It may be that he did not immediately know that he had been shot through the neck. It may be that he did not realize how serious things were until he tried to take a breath and realized he couldn't breathe. A person takes a breath about every 4 seconds so maybe his dramatic reaction at z226 is when he took that next breath. (He was also wearing a complete upper body corset so when he moves his entire torso moves).

Instead we see him calmly waving to the few remaining spectators on Elm St. until just before he goes behind the sign.

He is not waving after z193. The change begins after z193. He turns forward, brings his hand down and eventually his arm. By z222 both hands are up in front of him and are cupped or clenched. That is about 1.5 seconds and we really don't know when those hands took that position because he was behind the sign before then..

He had just started to lower his right hand  and was still lowering it at Z225. It was the next frame that JFK is seen reacting to the bullet that had passed through him and Connally a few frames earlier. That's the very same frame Connally reacted by flipping his injured right arm upward.

So his previous actions could not be a reaction to the shot through his neck?
 

If you asked 50 witnesses in DP what happened, you'd probably get 50 different versions.

They asked more than 50 witnesses what happened and the thrust of what they said happened is similar. But you do have to read what they said.

If it went a few inches to the left of JBC's midline, why isn't there a wound on the left side of JBC's back?

Maybe because his back/shoulders were turned sharply right. Maybe he was not as far left as you suggest. Itek said 4-8 inches. If he was 4 inches inside and leaning forward a bit, it could have passed 4-5 inches or so from his spine.

[John Corbett]

Connally says he was hit in Frame: Z-234

Frame from JFK  the movie:

JBC said that because he remembered after he got hit, he doubled over a dipped to his right. He looked at the Z-film and saw that stated about Z234. That reaction followed his involuntary, reflexive arm flip which began about a half second earlier at Z226, which he had no memory of. He didn't even know his wrist had been shattered until he came out of surgery.

[John Corbett]

Well, I gave you 9 pages of the evidence that the last two shots were closer together than the first two. I am not going to do that every time I mention it. I am just going to refer to the body of evidence bearing this out. Do you not agree that this large body of evidence set out in those 9 pages is evidence of the 1......2.
..3 shot pattern? Ditto for the 20+ witnesses that said JFN reacted to the first shot and the other 7 bodies of evidence.

You gave us 9 pages of witnesses recollections which is the most unreliable source of evidence we have and your arguments which are not evidence at all.

What is the normal reaction to being shot through the neck?

\

I don't know if there is such a thing as a "normal reaction" but if there is, it probably looks a lot like what JFK did starting at Z226.

The change starts at z193-194. By z222 he has moved left and his hands are clenched in front of him.

Are we still talking about JFK? He is not even visible at Z222. On what basis do you say he has moved left? Your imagination?

It may be that he did not immediately know that he had been shot through the neck. It may be that he did not realize how serious things were until he tried to take a breath and realized he couldn't breathe. A person takes a breath about every 4 seconds so maybe his dramatic reaction at z226 is when he took that next breath. (He was also wearing a complete upper body corset so when he moves his entire torso moves).

The more you try to save this turkey of a scenario you are presenting, the sillier you sound.

He is not waving after z193. The change begins after z193.

https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z200.jpg
Open your eyes!!! He most certainly is calmly waving to the spectators on Elm as we can see the white cuff of his right hand up in the air and his head is turned toward the spectators. I could have picked just above any from Z193-205 that shows the same thing. JFK begins to go behind the sign at Z205 and he is blocked from our view for just about one second. Just before he goes behind the sign he had started to lower his right hand. His right hand is still part way up when it becomes visible at Z224 and when we compare that frame to Z225, his arm is still being lowered at that point but is still part way up. It isn't until Z226 that his arms and JBC's right arm start moving rapidly upward in reaction to the single bullet having passed through both of them a few frames earlier. It's impossible to pinpoint the precise moment that single bullet struck but it would have been slightly before JBC's jacket bulged out at Z224.

 

He turns forward, brings his hand down and eventually his arm. By z222 both hands are up in front of him and are cupped or clenched. That is about 1.5 seconds and we really don't know when those hands took that position because he was behind the sign before then..

Pure BS. JFK is not even visible at Z222. His right hand becomes visible at Z224 and when we compare that to Z225 when his face reappears. his hand was still moving downward at Z225. it was at frame Z226 that his arms start to move dramatically upward.

So his previous actions could not be a reaction to the shot through his neck?

So says Dr. Andrew Mason.

They asked more than 50 witnesses

Oh, brother. More cherry picked witnesses. I'll gladly take the Z-film over all 50 of those witnesses. I would say the same if it was 500 or 5000.

what happened and the thrust of what they said happened is similar. But you do have to read what they said.

No I don't because we have the Z-film and that tells me exactly what happened and it trumps the recollections of every witness in DP.

Maybe because his back/shoulders were turned sharply right. Maybe he was not as far left as you suggest. Itek said 4-8 inches. If he was 4 inches inside and leaning forward a bit, it could have passed 4-5 inches or so from his spine.

4-5 inches from his spine would still result in a wound to his back. The fact the entry wound was near his right armpit indicates the bullet passed farther to the right than your silly figuring tells you.

[Andrew Mason]

"Yes, in my opinion, the HSCA was most certainly incorrect in its assessment that JFK was showing signs of being struck by a bullet as early as Zapruder frame 190. And I think the proof that the HSCA was dead wrong about that timing issue can be found later in that same Zapruder Film, in frames 224 thru 226. Because if Kennedy was hit as early as Z190, then there's no way we'd be seeing JFK doing what he's doing with the hands as late as Z226. That jerking upward of his hands would certainly have occurred well prior to Z226 if he had been hit as early as Z190." -- DVP; May 5, 2024

https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/30407-favorite-author-jim-dieugenio-favorite-researcher-pat-speer/page/3/#findComment-535251

Are you suggesting the reaction beginning at z226 could not possibly be a reaction to being unable to breathe?