Gov. John Connally Grips His White Stetson Hat at Z-272

[Benjamin Cole]

JM-

The bullet was not tumbling when it struck JBC's back.

[John Corbett]

The FBI re-enactment in May 1964 was with the Oak tree after spring growth and will full leaves.  They also used the wrong car.  Even then, it showed the whole back of the car to be visible at z210.

The Secret Service film 10 days after the assassination showed the tree closer to as it was on Nov. 22/63.  It showed that JFK was quite visible at all times when passing under the tree and completely clear when he had just passed the lamp post and before he pass the Thornton sign which is between z190 and z200:

The tree in front of the TBSD was a pin oak which typically hold onto their leaves until late winter and can even keep them until the new buds appear in the spring.

CE889 shows the view from the sniper's nest at frame 166 during the SS recreation. There is plenty of foliage on the tree and while JFK is partially visible,
it is not a clear shot. It also shows there is a brief gap in the tree at Z185 but there would no reason for Oswald to rush that shot knowing his target would be completely clear in less than 2 seconds. Oswald's training would have taught him to squeeze the trigger which he wouldn't have time to do if he rushed a shot when he briefly had a window. His target came clear at Z210 and his slow squeeze at that time would have fired his rifle about a half second later.

[Andrew Mason]

JM-

The bullet was not tumbling when it struck JBC's back.

The shape of the wound was described as elliptical.  An ellipse is a symmetrical shape that cannot be made by the asymmetrical shape of the side of the bullet.  An ellipse can be made by a pristine bullet striking the back where the bullet direction is not perpendicular to the skin surface at the point of entry. The wound was noted by Dr. Shaw to have created a small tunnelling wound which is also inconsistent with a tumbling bullet.

[John Corbett]

The shape of the wound was described as elliptical.  An ellipse is a symmetrical shape that cannot be made by the asymmetrical shape of the side of the bullet.  An ellipse can be made by a pristine bullet striking the back where the bullet direction is not perpendicular to the skin surface at the point of entry. The wound was noted by Dr. Shaw to have created a small tunnelling wound which is also inconsistent with a tumbling bullet.

The NOVA program which somebody recently posted in another thread included an excellent segment showing what happens when a Carcano bullet exits a body. It does tumble and they proved that by firing the Carcano through ballistic gel and ballistic soap with a board in front that matched the distance from JFK to JBC. The bullets consistently tumbled and made an elongated entry through the board almost the exact length of the Carcano bullet.

[Tom Graves]

JM-

The bullet was not tumbling when it struck JBC's back.

Yes, it was.

[Zeon Mason]

JohnM

Thanks for posting. That diagram is the only one I ever saw that shows a plausible way that JC could have been holding the hat upside down and a bullet going thru his wrist which  then enters the thigh and not go thru any part of the hat.

One question though is if JC had his buttocks hanging off the left side of the jump seat as the diagram appears ( imo) to show.

If a Z193 1st shot bullet exiting JFKs throat traveling at 1500ft/sec and completely bypassing JCs upper body mass, it’s doubtful if the bullet would have stopped in JCs thigh.

I think Andrews last suggestion was that if it went thru JC’s  thigh that it  might have struck that ashtray metal panel on the back side of the front seat and bounced back. Interesting idea but it needs a test with 2 replica human models. Not sure that the left leg would be high enough so that the inner thigh wound lines up with the metal plate/ashtray.

And it’s questionable if the Z193 bullet which Andrew thinks is definitely CE 399 that the nose would have no deformation after sticking a metal plate at probably at least 900 ft/sec causing it bounce back. Plus, would there not be some dent or some indication in the metal plate from the bullet striking it?

Probably going to require more tests with 2 replica human models and a limo like JFK limo.

[Tom Graves]

The NOVA program which somebody recently posted in another thread included an excellent segment showing what happens when a Carcano bullet exits a body. It does tumble and they proved that by firing the Carcano through ballistic gel and ballistic soap with a board in front that matched the distance from JFK to JBC. The bullets consistently tumbled and made an elongated entry through the board almost the exact length of the Carcano bullet.

Although what you say is true about Carcano bullets' consistently starting to yaw or tumble even before they've passed all the way through something soft (like a block of ballistics gel or a human neck), the size of the original entrance wound in JBC's back, before debridement, was "only" about half the length of CE-399.