The Brown Paper Bag

[John Mytton]

Too bad that Frazier testified that he never payed much attention to the Oswald's rifle bag. Try again! Hehehe!

You don't have to pay much attention to a package to see how somebody carried it.

Mr. FRAZIER - Well, I say, you know like I say, I didn't pay much attention to the package other than I knew he had it under his arm

But you are repeating yourself. You've already used this argument and it didn't work back then, so why do you think repeating it would work?

Be original and try something new!

I see you deviously cut off what Frazier said, let's see the WHOLE quote, Hmmm?

Mr. BALL - Well, from the way he carried it, the way he walked, did it appear he was carrying something that had more than the weight of a paper?
Mr. FRAZIER - Well, I say, you know like I say, I didn't pay much attention to the package other than I knew he had it under his arm and I didn't pay too much attention the way he was walking because I was walking along there looking at the railroad cars and watching the men on the diesel switch them cars and I didn't pay too much attention on how he carried the package at all.

Naughty, naughty, Martin!

JohnM

[John Mytton]

And let's examine what Oswald told Fritz. Oswald completely denied carrying a long paper sack and says he kept his lunch with him on the front seat.

Mr. BALL. When you did ask him about the sack, you did ask him about it, a sack at one time bringing a sack to work that morning?
Mr. FRITZ. Yes; I did.
Mr. BALL. And you asked him the size and shape of the sack, didn't you?
Mr. FRITZ. He never admitted bringing the sack. I showed him the size probably in asking him if he brought a sack that size and he denied it. He said he brought his lunch was all he brought.
Mr. BALL. Didn't he say when you asked him the size and shape of the sack that he had with him, he said, "I don't recall, it may have been a small sack or a large sack. You don't always find one that fits your sandwiches," something like that.
Mr. FRITZ. That might be true but he said it was a small sack. He said it was a lunch sack.
Mr. BALL. Didn't you ask him where he usually kept his sacks, how he carried it when he came to work in the car?
Mr. FRITZ. I asked him where he had the sack---his lunch, and he said he had it in the front seat with him.
[/quote]

And what does Frazier say? Oswald lied about his rifle bag!

Mr. FRAZIER - Let's see, when I got in the car I have a kind of habit of glancing over my shoulder and so at that time I noticed there was a package laying on the back seat, I didn't pay too much attention and I said, "What's the package, Lee?"
And he said, "Curtain rods," and I said, "Oh, yes, you told me you was going to bring some today."
That is the reason, the main reason he was going over there that Thursday afternoon when he was to bring back some curtain rods, so I didn't think any more about it when he told me that.

JohnM

[Martin Weidmann]

I see you deviously cut off what Frazier said, let's see the WHOLE quote, Hmmm?

Mr. BALL - Well, from the way he carried it, the way he walked, did it appear he was carrying something that had more than the weight of a paper?
Mr. FRAZIER - Well, I say, you know like I say, I didn't pay much attention to the package other than I knew he had it under his arm and I didn't pay too much attention the way he was walking because I was walking along there looking at the railroad cars and watching the men on the diesel switch them cars and I didn't pay too much attention on how he carried the package at all.

Naughty, naughty, Martin!

JohnM

Silly... Ball asked him if the way Oswald was carrying the package indicated that it "had more than the weight of a paper"

That's what Frazier responded to when he said he wasn't paying much attention.

But he nevertheless "knew he had it under his arm". There was no ambiguity about that!

[Martin Weidmann]

And let's examine what Oswald told Fritz. Oswald completely denied carrying a long paper sack and says he kept his lunch with him on the front seat.

Mr. BALL. When you did ask him about the sack, you did ask him about it, a sack at one time bringing a sack to work that morning?
Mr. FRITZ. Yes; I did.
Mr. BALL. And you asked him the size and shape of the sack, didn't you?
Mr. FRITZ. He never admitted bringing the sack. I showed him the size probably in asking him if he brought a sack that size and he denied it. He said he brought his lunch was all he brought.
Mr. BALL. Didn't he say when you asked him the size and shape of the sack that he had with him, he said, "I don't recall, it may have been a small sack or a large sack. You don't always find one that fits your sandwiches," something like that.
Mr. FRITZ. That might be true but he said it was a small sack. He said it was a lunch sack.
Mr. BALL. Didn't you ask him where he usually kept his sacks, how he carried it when he came to work in the car?
Mr. FRITZ. I asked him where he had the sack---his lunch, and he said he had it in the front seat with him.


And what does Frazier say? Oswald lied about his rifle bag!

Mr. FRAZIER - Let's see, when I got in the car I have a kind of habit of glancing over my shoulder and so at that time I noticed there was a package laying on the back seat, I didn't pay too much attention and I said, "What's the package, Lee?"
And he said, "Curtain rods," and I said, "Oh, yes, you told me you was going to bring some today."
That is the reason, the main reason he was going over there that Thursday afternoon when he was to bring back some curtain rods, so I didn't think any more about it when he told me that.

JohnM

Where exactly did Frazier say that Oswald lied about that so-called "rifle bag".

Even if Oswald told Frazier the package contained curtain rods when it actually didn't, it could well have been a white lie to explain the trip to Irving.
Why would Oswald tell a 19 year old co-worker that he was actually going to Irving to try and save his marriage?

It's a far cry from proving there was a rifle in that bag!

[John Mytton]

Oswald also denied carrying curtain rods in his long paper bag!

Mr. BALL. What did you tell him?
Mr. FRITZ. I told him he had a package and put it in the back seat and it was a package about that long and it was curtain rods. He said he didn't have any kind of a package but his lunch. He said he had his lunch and that is all he had, and Mr. Frazier told me that he got out of the car with that package, he saw him go toward the building with this long package.

JohnM

[John Corbett]

It just didn't fit between the cup of Oswald's hand and his shoulder.... OOPS!

You seem to operate under the delusion that eyewitnesses perfectly remember every detail, especially mundane details that wouldn't have seemed the least bit important at the time they were observed.

[Martin Weidmann]

Oswald also denied carrying curtain rods in his long paper bag!

Mr. BALL. What did you tell him?
Mr. FRITZ. I told him he had a package and put it in the back seat and it was a package about that long and it was curtain rods. He said he didn't have any kind of a package but his lunch. He said he had his lunch and that is all he had, and Mr. Frazier told me that he got out of the car with that package, he saw him go toward the building with this long package.

JohnM

If he told Frazier a white lie, the bag probably didn't contain curtain rods so it's no surprise that he said that to Fritz.

Fritz keeps going on about a "long package" but fails to tell us what he actually said or showed to Oswald. So, Oswald could simply have been denying that he carried a "long" bag.

Are you so desperate that you have to read far more into this than there actually is?

[John Mytton]

Where exactly did Frazier say that Oswald lied about that so-called "rifle bag".

Even if Oswald told Frazier the package contained curtain rods when it actually didn't, it could well have been a white lie to explain the trip to Irving.
Why would Oswald tell a 19 year old co-worker that he was actually going to Irving to try and save his marriage?

It's a far cry from proving there was a rifle in that bag!

Even if Oswald told Frazier the package contained curtain rods when it actually didn't, it could well have been a white lie to explain the trip to Irving.

There was something in the long paper bag and if wasn't curtain rods then it was something else. Funnily enough a bag with Oswald's prints was found on the 6th floor and this bag just happened to fit Oswald's rifle. 

Why would Oswald tell a 19 year old co-worker that he was actually going to Irving to try and save his marriage?

I agree that Oswald was trying to save his marriage but there was no need to go on a Thursday, when if he just waited 1 day he would have a whole weekend to convince her and also give him much more time with his children. Also a big problem was that this unusual visit was in direct violation of his agreement with Ruth Paine, Ruth was already going above and beyond in housing Marina and her children.
The reason was obviously two fold if he could convince Marina he might have not killed Kennedy but after his rejection and filled with rage he assassinated Kennedy and then while in flight he killed Tippit. Oswald was a double murderer!

JohnM