S. M. Holland's "Smoke" on the Grassy Knoll

[Tommy Shanks]

We've got one guy in this thread yammering on about impostor Dallas policemen, getaway cars and all sorts of other nuttiness and another who continues to somehow believe that a Secret Service agent accidentally shot JFK from one of the follow-up cars. This is the sad, sad state of JFK assassination research in 2026...

[John Corbett]

We've got one guy in this thread yammering on about impostor Dallas policemen, getaway cars and all sorts of other nuttiness and another who continues to somehow believe that a Secret Service agent accidentally shot JFK from one of the follow-up cars. This is the sad, sad state of JFK assassination research in 2026...

It wasn't any better back in 1991 when I first started engaging online with the Anybody-But-Oswald crowd. It hasn't improved at all since. At no point has it ever been rational. The only thing that has changed is the cult seems to be smaller and getting smaller with each passing year. 

We can believe all sorts of nefarious activities were going on at all levels of government or we can believe Oswald did it all by himself. Tough call.

[John Corbett]

    Exactly WHO saw "steam" being emitted by that pipe at around 12:30? If you want proof of "gun smoke", you should also be asking for proof of "steam". Fair Is Fair. I believe the proof regarding the smell of "gunpowder" is far greater than any alleged proof of "gun smoke" or "steam".

The steam/smoke claim has for years been advanced by the conspiracy crowd. I have no idea if it was true or not nor do I care. The reason is that modern ammo emits very little smoke and it dissipates almost immediately. If someone actually saw something, we can safely say it was not a firearm unless the shooter was firing a blunderbuss.

[Royell Storing]

The steam/smoke claim has for years been advanced by the conspiracy crowd. I have no idea if it was true or not nor do I care. The reason is that modern ammo emits very little smoke and it dissipates almost immediately. If someone actually saw something, we can safely say it was not a firearm unless the shooter was firing a blunderbuss.

   Please define what you specifically mean by "modern ammo".
   The "Steam/Cigarette Smoke" claim is usually made as a rebuttal to the "Gun Smoke" claim. To me, this means there was indeed something in the air on the parking lot side of the picket fence. Just looking at him, I personally do not regard Holland as a good "eyeball" witness. Still, he was a real life witness. I have not seen or even read a name attached to this steam pipe going off like a tea kettle at 12:30. I have the feeling that this is just another JFK Assassination Urban Legend. 

[Royell Storing]

   Please define what you specifically mean by "modern ammo".
   The "Steam/Cigarette Smoke" claim is usually made as a rebuttal to the "Gun Smoke" claim. To me, this means there was indeed something in the air on the parking lot side of the picket fence. Just looking at him, I personally do not regard Holland as a good "eyeball" witness. Still, he was a real life witness. I have not seen or even read a name attached to this steam pipe going off like a tea kettle at 12:30. I have the feeling that this is just another JFK Assassination Urban Legend.

[Royell Storing]

   Please define what you specifically mean by "modern ammo".
   The "Steam/Cigarette Smoke" claim is usually made as a rebuttal to the "Gun Smoke" claim. To me, this means there was indeed something in the air on the parking lot side of the picket fence.
   Just looking at him, I personally do not regard Holland as a good "eyeball" witness. Still, he was a real life witness. I have not seen or even read a name attached to this steam pipe going off like a tea kettle at 12:30. I have the feeling that this is just another JFK Assassination Urban Legend.

[Michael T. Griffith]

This seems awfully nitpicky. The Wiegman film shows a puff of smoke hanging over some of the trees on the knoll. The fact that Holland wasn't certain which shot corresponded to the puff of smoke does not change the fact that he said he saw a puff of smoke on the knoll, especially given that other witnesses also said they saw a puff of smoke. The smoke could not have come from the steam pipes because they were too far away, nor could it have come from the moving patrol bikes.

Plus, a number of witnesses in the motorcade and on the knoll said they smelled the pungent odor of gunpowder near/on the grassy knoll.