Podcast On Tippit

[John Mytton]

Since when is zipping up a jacket unusual?

I repeat; there is evidence that shows that the grey jacket was in Irving and could not have been at the rooming house on Friday morning. As Oswald had only two jackets and one of those was found at the TSBD, while Frazier described the jacket Oswald was wearing on Thursday afternoon as being grey, can you explain how the grey jacket could have been at the rooming house the next day?

Frazier described the jacket Oswald was wearing on Thursday afternoon as being grey

Try Again!

Actually, eye witness testimony is the worst kind of evidence.

And it is common knowledge that eyewitnesses frequently get all sorts of details wrong,

Ouch!

JohnM

[Martin Weidmann]

Try Again!



Ouch!

JohnM

Except of course when the witness' name is Earlene Roberts, right?

But let's see if you want to play. We know from Marina that Oswald had two jackets; one grey one and one dark-grey one. The latter was found at the TSBD and thus must have been the jacket that Oswald was wearing on Friday.

According to Frazier, Oswald was wearing a grey jacket on the trip to Irving on Thursday.

So, how could the grey jacket have been at the rooming house in Oak Cliff on the next day?

When you figure it out, let me know!

[John Mytton]

Except of course when the witness' name is Earlene Roberts, right?

But let's see if you want to play. We know from Marina that Oswald had two jackets; one grey one and one dark-grey one. The latter was found at the TSBD and thus must have been the jacket that Oswald was wearing on Friday.

According to Frazier, Oswald was wearing a grey jacket on the trip to Irving on Thursday.

So, how could the grey jacket have been at the rooming house in Oak Cliff on the next day?

When you figure it out, let me know!

Very near the Tippit crime scene, Oswald was seen entering a carpark and his jacket was found under a car, the jacket was initialled by various law officers and the FBI forensic examiner, to maintain a chain of custody.

The jacket was filmed at the scene and this jacket was positively identified by his wife.



Stombaugh confirms his initials on evidence was designated by his initials PMS.

Mr. EISENBERG. "PMS" being your initials, Paul M. Stombaugh?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. Yes, sir.



Mr. RANKIN. 162?
Mrs. OSWALD. That is Lee's--an old shirt.
Mr. RANKIN. Sort of a jacket?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

JohnM

[Zeon Mason]

So who actually found the jacket under the car?

[John Corbett]

Roberts statement about the jacket is crucial to the entire Tippit case. I find it beyond believe that you have been arguing the case for 35 years and have never discussed her statement.

Well, why don't you start today? 

You claim eye witnesses are frequently unreliable. Does that also include Earlene Roberts' statement about Oswald leaving the rooming house wearing a jacket?

I have discussed her statements bu never found any of them to be crucial to the case against Oswald. The discussions I've had with conspiracy hobbyists have been about here statement that Oswald came and left at about 1:00. Numerous times conspiracy hobbyists we try to use that as a firmly established  time to argue Oswald couldn't have reached 10th and Patton in time to have been Tippit's murder. That's silly for several reasons. We don't know that he left the rooming house at precisely 1:00 and a difference of even a few minutes makes all the difference in the world. Back when I visited Dallas in 2008 I made the walk from the rooming house to 10th and Patton in just under 13 minutes so I don't see any problem for Oswald to have gotten there in time to  kill ==Tippit.

As for the jacket, I can't ever remember focusing on Roberts statement about the jacket. The fact that she said he left with a jacket does not prove to me he actually did have a jacket on when he left but it certainly doesn't rule it out either. There's plenty of other evidence to establish ditched his jacket under a car after fleeing the scene of the Tippit murder. We could establish that even if Roberts had never mentioned the jacket. The single most damning piece of evidence that Oswald was the Tippit murderer is that he had the murder weapon in his possession when he was arrested along wtih the same two makes of bullets that killed Tippit. It's hard to get around that if you want to argue for Oswald's innocence. 

[John Mytton]

So who actually found the jacket under the car?

After Oswald's jacket was pointed out, Westbrook removed Oswald's jacket from under a parked car.

Mr. WESTBROOK. Actually, I didn't find it--it was pointed out to me by either some officer that--that was while we were going over the scene in the close area where the shooting was concerned, someone pointed. out a jacket to me that was laying under a car and I got the jacket and told the officer to take the license number.

And subsequently Oswald's jacket which was confirmed by Marina, was filmed in the carpark.



JohnM

[Martin Weidmann]

Very near the Tippit crime scene, Oswald was seen entering a carpark and his jacket was found under a car, the jacket was initialled by various law officers and the FBI forensic examiner, to maintain a chain of custody.

The jacket was filmed at the scene and this jacket was positively identified by his wife.



Stombaugh confirms his initials on evidence was designated by his initials PMS.

Mr. EISENBERG. "PMS" being your initials, Paul M. Stombaugh?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. Yes, sir.



Mr. RANKIN. 162?
Mrs. OSWALD. That is Lee's--an old shirt.
Mr. RANKIN. Sort of a jacket?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

JohnM

Very near the Tippit crime scene, Oswald was seen entering a carpark and his jacket was found under a car, the jacket was initialled by various law officers and the FBI forensic examiner, to maintain a chain of custody.

Lie # 1 and 2

There was no chain of custody;

Mr. WESTBROOK. Yes; behind the Texaco service station, and some officer, I feel sure it was an officer, I still can't be positive pointed this jacket out to me and it was laying slightly under the rear of one of the cars.
Mr. BALL. What kind of a car was it?
Mr. WESTBROOK. That, I couldn't tell you. I told the officer to take the make and the license number.
Mr. BALL. Did you take the number yourself?
Mr. WESTBROOK. No.
Mr. BALL. What was the name of the officer?
Mr. WESTBROOK. I couldn't tell you that, sir.

<>

Mr. WESTBROOK. Now, I did, when I left this scene, I turned this jacket over to one of the officers and I went by that church, I think, and I think that would be on 10th Street.

<>

Mr. BALL. And you turned it over to whom?
Mr. WESTBROOK. Now, it was to this officer--that got the name.
Mr. BALL. Does your report show the name of the officer?
Mr. WESTBROOK. No, sir; it doesn't. When things like this happen--it was happening so fast you don't remember those things.

And unknown and never identified officer finds a jacket and shows it to Westbrook who gives it to another unnamed officer isn't a chain of custody.

The people who marked the grey jacket did so at the police station and were never part of the chain of custody.

The jacket was filmed at the scene and this jacket was positively identified by his wife

Lie # 3

Marina identified the grey jacket that did indeed belong to Oswald. There is no evidence that the jacket found at the car park, described as white by several officers, was ever shown to Marina,

[Martin Weidmann]

I have discussed her statements bu never found any of them to be crucial to the case against Oswald. The discussions I've had with conspiracy hobbyists have been about here statement that Oswald came and left at about 1:00. Numerous times conspiracy hobbyists we try to use that as a firmly established  time to argue Oswald couldn't have reached 10th and Patton in time to have been Tippit's murder. That's silly for several reasons. We don't know that he left the rooming house at precisely 1:00 and a difference of even a few minutes makes all the difference in the world. Back when I visited Dallas in 2008 I made the walk from the rooming house to 10th and Patton in just under 13 minutes so I don't see any problem for Oswald to have gotten there in time to  kill ==Tippit.

As for the jacket, I can't ever remember focusing on Roberts statement about the jacket. The fact that she said he left with a jacket does not prove to me he actually did have a jacket on when he left but it certainly doesn't rule it out either. There's plenty of other evidence to establish ditched his jacket under a car after fleeing the scene of the Tippit murder. We could establish that even if Roberts had never mentioned the jacket. The single most damning piece of evidence that Oswald was the Tippit murderer is that he had the murder weapon in his possession when he was arrested along wtih the same two makes of bullets that killed Tippit. It's hard to get around that if you want to argue for Oswald's innocence.

The fact that she said he left with a jacket does not prove to me he actually did have a jacket on when he left but it certainly doesn't rule it out either.

True.

There's plenty of other evidence to establish ditched his jacket under a car after fleeing the scene of the Tippit murder.

Wrong! If Oswald left the rooming house without a jacket, than he couldn't have ditched a jacket under a car.

We could establish that even if Roberts had never mentioned the jacket.

Wrong again! There was no chain of custody for the jacket found at the car park. An unknown and never identified patrol officer pointed the jacket under the car out to Captain Westbrook, who then gave it to another unknown officer after which that jacket disappeared.

In several radio communications the jacket in the car park was described as being white. John Mytton constantly claims falsely that sunlight changed the color of the jacket, but although that might be true when looking at a black and white photo, it most certainly isn't true when an officer is holding the jacket in his hand.

Add to this, that we know from Marina that Oswald had only two jackets. One grey one and one dark-grey one. The latter was found at the TSBD, so must have been the one Oswald was wearing on Friday morning. Buell Frazier testified that during the trip to Irving on Thursday afternoon Oswald was wearing a grey jacket. Although his description of that jacket was somewhat strange, there can nevertheless only be one conclusion, which is that Oswald did in fact wear his grey jacket to Irving and left it there. This means it could not have been at Oak Cliff on Friday morning.

So, how did the grey jacket end up at the DPD station being marked by several officers? I believe it is possible that the grey jacket was taken from Ruth Paine's house during the second search of her home on Saturday afternoon. When it got to the station the white jacket was substituted for the grey one and marked. I also believe this is the reason why the FBI visited some 400 dry cleaners in the Dallas and New Orleans areas in order to find the dry cleaner that matched the label found in the jacket, so that the jacket could be linked to Oswald.

Now before you go all "the DPD wouldn't something like that", you should consider that this isn't the only strange matter in relation to the second search of Ruth Paine's house. That search started on Saturday around midday and by around 3 PM the officers were back at the station. Allegedly, it was during the second search that the BY photos were found. However, Michael Paine is on record saying that he was shown one of the photos on Friday evening by an FBI agent who wanted to know where the photo was taken. And Captain Fritz testified that around 12.30 on Saturday afternoon he showed Oswald a BY photo which had already been enlarged. So, how was that possible if the BY photos really didn't get to the station until about 3 PM.

See where this is going?