Did Garrison originally believe it was a homosexual "thrill kill" assassination?

[Tom Graves]

No, I simply think Garrison was insane.

And overly ambitious, scandal-plagued, and revengeful, to boot. Regarding the latter, I've read that Shaw once publicly embarrassed him in a restaurant by forcing him to stop verbally abusing his wife.

I have no idea what this thread is supposed to be about [...] or what on earth you're talking about.

I doubt that you're that obtuse, FP, but I'll spell it out for you:

If Communist-owned "Paese Sera" hadn't published the bogus anti-CIA / anti-Shaw article so soon after Garrison had arrested the closeted-gay New Orleans businessman, and if Garrison hadn't read a translated version of it (courtesy of Joan Mellen's ex-husband in London) so soon after he'd arrested Shaw, he probably would have "stayed on course" and tried to prove in court (with help from attention-seeking Perry Russo, whom we now know confused photographic images of cleanshaven 5' 9.5" Oswald for Ferrie's bearded 6' 1" gay roommate, James "Lew" / "Leon" Lewallen) that Shaw had masterminded a homosexual thrill-kill assassination of JFK.

But it did.

And Garrison read it within three weeks.

And it convinced him to pursue the "the CIA killed JFK" angle, instead.

Get it?

I have no idea why you think it was worth starting.

This thread was worth starting because we're seeing similar "active measures" today, e.g., the KGB's "losing" to Dutch Intelligence hackers in 2016 some fake "Russian Intel" memos which impugned Hillary, Obama and Biden by incorporating fake emails. At least one of which memos James Comey and Special Counsel John Durham realized was fake, but the former, fearing that it would be leaked by pro-Trump FBI agents before the election and unduly damage the reputation of Clinton or the FBI or AG Lynch or some-such thing, used as an excuse for prematurely (in retrospect) terminating the Bureau's investigation of Hillary's emails, and the latter went ahead and sneakily incorporated some others from the same batch into his nothing-burger Investigation of the Investigators.

And because "useful idiot" (or worse) Tulsi Gabbard, et al., are now trying to spin those fake Russian memos in such a way to make it look as though high-level Deep State Dems sabotaged Trump's campaign, and Tulsi, et al., are hoping that the spun issue of "Russiagate" will distract his MAGAT base from the Epstein/Maxwell/ Trump Case by having it refocus on Russiagate! Russiagate! Russiagate!, and do so while "former" KGB officer Vladimir Putin is jumping for joy -- because "useful idiots" (or worse) "Republicans" are doing his dirty work for him, just as Jim Garrison (and, twenty years later, Comrade Oliver Stone) did the Kremlin's dirty work so well that this "JFKA Forum" exists some sixty-two years after the fact, and you and I are even having this conversation.

That's why.

That, and because it's a "hoot."

I do, however, put Clay Shaw and Ruth Paine on the Mt. Rushmore of people who have suffered at the hands of CT lunatics.

Okay.

EDIT: Hmmmm. After posting the above, I, as a Serious and Dedicated Researcher, reviewed over 15 pages of Google results for "homosexual thrill killing." I found zero references to this heinous crime other than in connection with the Garrison investigation. It would appear the FBI is wasting its time with the LGBTQ+ thrill killing training, although I can see why Hoover might've found it titillating.

"Crazy," overly ambitious, scandal-plagued and revengeful Garrison couldn't possibly have seriously entertained the theory, then, could he, FP?

I also discovered, however, that some fairly serious folks DO question Phelan's account.

Who, pray tell?

Jim "The CIA Did It!" DiEugenio?

Gary "Rudeness" Aguilar?

Jefferson "Yuri Nosenko Was a True Defector!" Morley?

I must say, the account sounds pretty nutty, even for Garrison.

Yes, pretty nutty, indeed, but not too nutty for overly ambitious, scandal-plagued and revengeful Jim Garrison, I'm afraid.

Perhaps Phelan was a Solie-planted mole or ferret? What did Nosenko say about all this? Is Newman on the case?

Funny . . . I was just going to ask you what your favorite humanitarian, Vladimir Putin, told you about it?

Equally funny is the fact that you didn't mention true defector KGB Major Anatoliy Golitsyn. Is it because it was he who tried to warn the CIA and the FBI as early as 1962 that they could expect (after a 35-year hiatus since the GPU's* highly successful "Operation Trust") to be on the receiving end of Sun Tzu-like "active measures" operations by your beloved KGB, and the fact that the aforementioned "Paese Sera" article so nicely fit the bill, albeit some five years later?

Hmmmmm, indeed.

*GPU = Gosudarstvennoye politicheskoye upravleniye

[Tom Graves]

I, as a Serious and Dedicated Researcher, reviewed over 15 pages of Google results for "homosexual thrill killing."

Dear Fancy Pants,

Did it give you a seriously dedicated thrill?

-- Tom

[Tom Graves]

"Homosexual thrill killings" are a well-known category of major crime. [FPR says sarcastically.] Ask any FBI profiler; they have to attend 40 hours of classroom training just on homosexual thrill killings, although today the course is called LGBTQ+ thrill killings. Here is a fairly scholarly yet amusing discussion, "A Homosexual Thrill-Kill?", https://feralhouse.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/thrill-kill-by-gorightly.pdf. The author, Adam Gorightly, is apparently quite well-known in certain circles and describes himself as "a true Renaissance man of the lunatic fringe," https://adamgorightly.com/index.html

Dear FPR,

On one hand, six months ago (see above) you belittled the idea that Jim Garrison (or any other prosecutor) would consider charging someone with committing a homosexual "thrill-kill," and on the other hand, earlier today you posted a fine documentary based on Patricia Lambert's excellent book, False Witness, (which Al Beaubouef turned me onto when he called me out-of-the-blue in 2008 to correct something I'd posted at the so-called Ed Forum) in which former Saturday Evening Post writer James Phelan says Garrison told him exactly that in early 1967.

Do you think Phelan was lying?

Regardless, it's interesting that Garrison's assistant, Life magazine's Richard Billings, wrote in his journal on 16 March 1967 words to the effect that, "Having read the [communist-owned, anti-CIA / anti-Clay Shaw] "Paese Sera" article, Garrison is now considering the possibility that Clay Shaw did it for the CIA."

Do you think Billings was lying, too, FPR?

-- Tom

PS When we read False Witness, we find the following:

(slightly paraphrased)

“Garrison’s supporters claim that Phelan fabricated the story about Garrison’s “homosexual thrill-killing’’ theory, but William Gurvich told Shaw’s attorneys about it in 1967, Perry Russo recited the “theory” in his 1971 statements to them and said it came from the D.A.’s office, several references to it -- tied directly to Garrison and including at least one direct quote -- are found in Billings Personal Notes, and journalist Nicholas C. Chriss connected it to Garrison [See chapter 6, note 17].”

[footnote 17] Ibid. [Russo-Defense Team Interview], p. 8. Garrison discussed this homosexual-thrill-killing theory, which made headlines in one of the tabloids of the period, with members of his staff and various journalists, including Richard Billings, James Phelan and Nicholas Chriss (Gurvich Conference, tape #2, p. 18; Billings Personal Notes, pp. 16, 18, 28; James Phelan, Scandals, Scamps, and Scoundrels [New York: Random House, 1982] pp. 150-151; Nicholas Chriss, “New Orleans: Melodrama, but the Plot Is Obscure,” Los Angeles Times, Opinion, Section G, March 26, 1967, p. 2).

[Benjamin Cole]

It was Malcolm Blunt who said the Bruce Solie was all over the Garrison investigation.

I wonder what he meant.

[Tom Graves]

It was Malcolm Blunt who said the Bruce Solie was all over the Garrison investigation.

I wonder what he meant.

IIRC, he said "Solie was all over the Kennedy Investigation," and "all over Clay Shaw for Jim Garrison."