JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate > JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate
Anyone but Tom understand what the "KGB stuff" is all about?
Lance Payette:
Since TG just keeps posting, he is quite correct: I did look at this post and will respond as follows to the following. Then I, at least, am done.
--- Quote from: Tom Graves on January 22, 2026, 06:35:00 PM ---Dear Fancy Pants Rants,
Knowing you, you'll get so antsy that you'll have to read this:
Why didn't you include the first two sentences (in bold, below) in my reply to Sandy Larsen (RIP) on 15 January 2018 at the so-called JFK Assassination Debate - Education Forum when he asked me,
Tommy,
What makes you think that a mole might have had something to do with the assassination? Or with Oswald? Or is this sheer speculation?
[Dear Sandy,]
Pure speculation in a wilderness of mirrors, Sandy.
All hypothetical at this point, but a paradigm that might help to explain some apparent anomalies ...
--- End quote ---
Well, let's see: TG's exchange with the late Sandy was in 2018, more than eight years ago. Since the KGB stuff - oops, sorry, the KGB Deconstruction of America, Including Without Limitation the JFKA stuff - now appears to occupy TG's every waking hour, I assumed he would no longer characterize it as "pure speculation."
If he does still characterize it as pure speculation ... well, I for one am heartened to learn this.
Now we are really done. My current fascination is with Royell's One Glove Cop, which would make a great name for a rock group or perhaps a rapper: "Appearing together, one night only, Bad Bunny and One Glove Cop." Yeah, I like it.
Tom Graves:
--- Quote from: Lance Payette on January 22, 2026, 03:37:38 PM ---No, wait, there's more! The genesis of TG's theory actually predates the election of The Donald.
Here is TG floating his "joint KGB / CIA assassination" theory in 2012:
Did They "Do It" Together?
I mean, of course, the KGB and the CIA and the assassination of JFK, not something of a kinkier nature, you naughty boys and girls!
You know, maybe they had some common "vested interests" --- that sort of thing?
Or, maybe it was a case of "You scratch my back and I'll scratch yours, and we'll both get filthy rich ...
... or at least a shiny new Lada / Ferrari and a dacha / house on the Black Sea / in La Jolla!)".
--Tommy
David Josephs of Harvey & Lee fame then fleshed it out, to which TG replied "Exactly!":
Hold up a second Robert [Morrow, who had described TG's idea as having a one-in-a-trillion chance of being correct] ...
Are you trying to tell us that you cannot see how HAWKS in the KGB as well as the ruling economic elite in Russia (yes virginia, there really are wealthy people in communist nations) would not want to perpetuate the Cold War and avoid peace at all costs...? Yet you have no problem with the HAWKS of the USA, in the Military and CIA, to perpetuate the Cold War?
I think you are missing the role of the emerging global corporations, financed by the international banks and the benefit derived by the constant state of Cold (and Hot) War.
Billions upon billions of "officially spent money" was lost in Russia when the Cold War finally ended... Where the US government & companies just shifted focus from the WAR on Communism to the WAR on Terrorism and continued to spend accordingly, the Russian economy was corrupted by organized crime taking on all shapes and persona.
Richard Case Nagell was not even sure which side was ordering him to kill Oswald...
I believe if you step back and see the overriding focus was on MONEY and POWER... and that the groups that desired control of such things continue regardless of ideology, theology, political party or any other such nonsense... AND add that the CIA as well as a number of other agencies were choked full of "communists" who thought it crucial NEVER to give in to the USA..
It is not such a stretch to see cooperation among thieves to keep their livlihoods AND organizations intact.
To dovetail back to your thesis - LBJ - he cooperated cause of all the money involved, and his freedom. "None Dare Call It a Conspiracy" helps in this question to see that the CIA and KGD were in the same business... perpetuate the organization, protect the organization, expand the organization so that a state of fear persists and people will be more and more willing to give up personal freedoms and liberty to FEEL protected...
JFK's future dictated that these two agencies would no longer be needed - or at least be seriously curtailed... and they both knew it.
And this is why men like Dub'ya Bush do not get executed... He's one of THEM.
Now you can see where I have gone awry: Silly me thought TG's notion of the superman-level success of the KGB in deconstructing America related to the long march through the institutions and the election of lefties such as Obama, Biden, Hillary and Kamala. Silly me thought it had something to do with advancing Marxist/socialist ideology and that sort of thing. No, no, no - it was all about the Benjamins from the get-go - or at least that was the theory in 2012 - and Dubya was as much of a useful idiot as The Donald.
I can't even begin to keep this stuff straight. I won't bore you further. If it all makes sense to you, keep it to yourself because I no longer care.
Breaking news: Jim Di started a thread specifically to deal (not kindly) with TG's KGB stuff. It isn't worth reading, but at last I understand: EVERYTHING THAT HAS HAPPENDED IN AMERICA since 1921 has been KGB-orchestrated. Trump, Biden, the collapse of the educational system, my Milwaukee Braves winning the World Series in 1957, everything. At least that narrows it down.
--- End quote ---
Dear Fancy Pants Rants,
As I've already revealed, Oliver Stone's self-described mythological ("to counter the myth of the Warren Report") film "JFK" (the genesis of which was a KGB article published in the Communist-owned Italian newspaper, Paese Sera, four days after overly ambitious, scandal plagued, and revengeful Jim Garrison arrested Clay Shaw on suspicion of having organized a homosexual "thrill-kill" assassination of JFK) had a big influence on me . . . as it did, unfortunately, on millions of other impressionable Americans.
Although I started to "see the light" when a West-looking Ukrainian politician, Viktor Yuschenko, was poisoned with dioxin in 2004, it took me a long time to get over that bit of 1991 KGB-encouraged celluloid disinformation, and my return to "sanity" was slowed down considerably by my naively joining, in 2005, the far-left JFKA CT web site ironically called the JFK Assassination Debate - Education Forum, where I fell under the influence of the likes of Comrade Jim DiEugenio and all of the other far-left CTs who were there at that time, and most of whose names I no longer remember (although I must say that Dawn Meridith and a few others do come to mind).
The fact that by 2012, as evidenced above, I no longer thought the evil, evil, evil CIA-Mafia alone had killed JFK, but that the hit may have been a joint op between them and your beloved (or at least de-emphasized) KGB* is evidence that I'd actually come a long way, baby.
What's ironic is that I now think it's possible that the assassination was a joint effort by a KGB*-controlled part of the CIA and the KGB*, proper.
How you like Dem apples, Fancy Pants Rants?
*Today's SVR and FSB
-- Tom
Tom Graves:
--- Quote from: Lance Payette on January 22, 2026, 08:30:56 PM ---Since TG just keeps posting, he is quite correct: I did look at this post and will respond as follows to the following. Then I, at least, am done.
Well, let's see: TG's exchange with the late Sandy was in 2018, more than eight years ago. Since the KGB stuff - oops, sorry, the KGB Deconstruction of America, Including Without Limitation the JFKA stuff - now appears to occupy TG's every waking hour, I assumed he would no longer characterize it as "pure speculation."
If he does still characterize it as pure speculation ... well, I for one am heartened to learn this.
--- End quote ---
I hate to bum you out, Fancy Pants Rants, but I hadn't yet read John M. Newman's 2022 book, Uncovering Popov's Mole (which he dedicated to your bugbear, Tennent H, Bagley, btw), which I highly suggest that YOU read (but disregard the part where he says some high-level military officers killed JFK because he refused to nuke Peking and Moscow in 1963).
Whether or not the Ruskies were behind the JFKA, I like Newman's idea that Bruce Solie sent LHO to Moscow as an ostensible "dangle" in a (unbeknownst to Angleton and Oswald) planned-to-fail hunt for "Popov's U-2 Mole" in the wrong part of the CIA.
-- Tom
Benjamin Cole:
LP-
You may have overstated the case against Bagley/Angleton. There were (and are?) plenty of people in the CIA skeptical about Nosenko.
In addition, John Newman is a serious researcher, and he has posited Bruce Solie was a KGB mole and running LHO.
There was a KGB'er in Minsk who said he was running LHO, but stopped once LHO returned to the US, and that yes, Marina was a "swallow." She lso stopped being of service upon departing the SU.
LHO contacted not only KGB, but G2 assets in Mexico City. LHO spoke of assassinating JFK while in MC. Castro spoke of revenge assassination attempts on the Kennedy brothers, in September of 1963.
TG is roughly right that the KGB, or other Soviet assets, have been running disinformation campaigns in the US during the entire postwar era, and surely they often manipulated left-wing assets in doing so.
TG now contends Moscow is manipulating right-wing assets also. Tucker Carlson anyone?
As to any particular arcane detail about the KGB in the postwar era, or some obscure name or reference...sure, I may be lost.
I agree with the summation of Sean Coleman on the Ed Forum, and even worse, it has an anti-Semitic crackpot, William N. as its primary "moderator." How low can you go?
I rather suspect John Simkin is in his dotage....like deep into his dotage....
Tom Graves:
--- Quote from: Benjamin Cole on January 23, 2026, 01:00:17 AM ---[LP] may have overstated the case against Bagley/Angleton. There were (and are?) plenty of people in the CIA skeptical about Nosenko.
--- End quote ---
FPR thinks Bagley, a PhD'd former Marine Lieutenant during WW II whose father and two older brothers were Admirals, whose Great Uncle on his mother's side was Fleet Admiral William D. Leahy, who received a medal when he retired from the Agency, and whom Richard Helms said in so many words was on the fast track to become Director of CIA until putative KGB staff officer Yuri Nosenko defected to the U.S. -- was a scam artist.
Perhaps FPL is a scam artist, himself, and projects his defective character onto anyone, dead or alive, who appears to him to challenge the legitimacy of The Traitorous Orange Bird (rhymes with "Xxxx")?
FPR doesn't want to learn about said mole-protecting putative KGB staff officer / false defector-in-place in Geneva in June 1962 / false (or perhaps rogue) physical defector to the U.S. in February 1964 Yuri Nosenko because Nosenko isn't a "hoot" and because he intuits that if he did learn about him, he'd have to consider the possibility that the KGB* really DID install The Traitorous Orange Bird (rhymes with "Xxxx") as our "president."
*Today's SVR and FSB
--- Quote ---John Newman is a serious researcher, and he has posited Bruce Solie was a KGB mole and running LHO.
--- End quote ---
Dear "BC,"
Please remember to say, "Probable KGB mole Bruce Leonard Solie (look him up) in the mole-hunting Office of Security was father-figure-requiring James Angleton's confidant, mentor, and mole hunting superior."
-- "TG"
--- Quote ---LHO spoke of assassinating JFK while in MC.
--- End quote ---
Correction:
The allegation that Oswald spoke in Mexico City of killing JFK comes from the two Russia-born "triple agents," Morris and Jack Childs, after egg-on-face gumshoe J. Edgar Hoover had sent them to Havana six months after the assassination to find out if Castro was involved in it.
--- Quote ---Tom is roughly right that the KGB, or other Soviet assets, have been running disinformation campaigns in the US during the entire postwar era, and surely they often manipulated left-wing assets in doing so.
--- End quote ---
"Roughly right"?
--- Quote ---Tom now contends Moscow is manipulating right-wing assets also. Tucker Carlson anyone?
--- End quote ---
The KGB* has been manipulating everyone for several decades, e.g., Oliver Stone AND us through his self-described mythological ("to counter for the myth of the Warren Report") movie (sic), "JFK."
*Today's SVR and FSB
--- Quote ---I rather suspect John Simkin is deep into his dotage.
--- End quote ---
I rather suspect John Simkin is an aging Trotskyite.
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