JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate > JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate
Anyone but Tom understand what the "KGB stuff" is all about?
Benjamin Cole:
LP--
I admire TG's command of all things KGB, and he is a tonic to all the lefties that usually flood the JFKA zone.
I have refreshed my understanding of G2/KGB thanks to TG, reviewing Tennent Bagley, Gus Russo and John Newman, and TG's writing.
I still don't know who perped the JFKA, and I still suspect a very small conspiracy, literally three guys, including LHO. No one above them.
However, whereas before I tended to lean towards Alpha 66, I am now open to a G2-KGB (likely, lower level dudes) plot.
Interestingly, many Cuban exiles were thought to be double agents, including Rolando Cubela.
That leaves open the possibility of G2 assets, who appeared to anti-Castro exiles, linking up with LHO.
I advise TG to be more civil in his commentary, and avoid current-day politics, but there are far worse, such as the leftist anti-Semitic crackpots running the Education Forum.
I will take TG by a country mile over the Education Forum ghouls.
Tom Graves:
--- Quote from: Benjamin Cole on January 22, 2026, 08:08:19 AM ---I admire TG's command of all things KGB, and he is a tonic to all the lefties that usually flood the JFKA zone.
--- End quote ---
And all of the Far-Righties here who don't have the courage to contemplate the possibility that the KGB* (and the GRU) is so powerful that it could, in order to get us to tear ourselves apart, install The Traitorous Orange Bird (rhymes with "Xxxx") as our "president."
(Sorry, "BC," I couldn't help it.)
*Today's SVR and FSB
Lance Payette:
--- Quote from: Benjamin Cole on January 22, 2026, 08:08:19 AM ---LP--
I admire TG's command of all things KGB, and he is a tonic to all the lefties that usually flood the JFKA zone.
I have refreshed my understanding of G2/KGB thanks to TG, reviewing Tennent Bagley, Gus Russo and John Newman, and TG's writing.
I still don't know who perped the JFKA, and I still suspect a very small conspiracy, literally three guys, including LHO. No one above them.
However, whereas before I tended to lean towards Alpha 66, I am now open to a G2-KGB (likely, lower level dudes) plot.
Interestingly, many Cuban exiles were thought to be double agents, including Rolando Cubela.
That leaves open the possibility of G2 assets, who appeared to anti-Castro exiles, linking up with LHO.
I advise TG to be more civil in his commentary, and avoid current-day politics, but there are far worse, such as the leftist anti-Semitic crackpots running the Education Forum.
I will take TG by a country mile over the Education Forum ghouls.
--- End quote ---
To paraphrase: You have no idea what he's talking about either.
TG's "grasp of all things KGB" is, of course, completely at odds with the CIA's own analyses in 1976 (Hart) and 2011 (Royden), as well as the many CIA colleagues who derided Angleton and Bagley's obsession with the imaginary "Monster Plot," and is derived almost entirely from the dubious sources he cites ad nauseam, which are rejected by the majority of intelligence scholars. I don't see that they add anything whatsoever to an analsysis of the JFKA.
Oswald was sent to Moscow to ferret out moles: Pure speculation. Oswald engaged heavily with the KGB in Russia: Pure speculation and at odds with all known facts. Oswald came back to the U.S. for some KGB-related purpose: Pure speculation. Marina was a KGB sleeper agent: Pure speculation and at odds with all known facts. The election of The Donald was somehow Putin-orchestrated and The Donald's presidency is in furtherance of some KGB objective extending back to the origin of the Monster Plot: Patent nonsense.
I submit that absolutely no one can actually articulate a version of TG's narrative, from the Angleton years through the Trump presidency, that comes close to making sense. If someone can, go for it! That's the challenge posed by this thread.
The KGB folks were and are rather nasty specimens: Sure, no breaking news there. They would have loved to, and surely did, plant moles in the CIA: Sure. They attempted to ferret out CIA moles in their organization: Sure. They made use of events like the JFKA to foment unrest and plant disinformation that served their purposes: Undoubtedly.
I see no substantive difference between the CIA and KGB in respect to these things, and it is absurd to think the KGB had "10 feet tall" superhuman abilities that the CIA lacked.
I see nothing in TG's posts that actually has anything at all to do with Oswald or the JFKA, except in the most tangential sense (e.g., the "Dear Mr. Hunt" KGB ploy). TG's posts seem to me virtually NOTHING but expressions of his TDS. A not-completely-irrational description of his KGB stuff might have been possible if he had focused his wrath on Clinton, Obama, Biden and Harris as examples of the KGB's efforts, but to try to fit Trump into this narrative seems just flat-out nutty. He must do this, however, because his TDS is his overriding motivation; everything else flows backwards from that. (All IMHO, of course, and I invite anyone who cares to dispute it to do so.)
At the Ed Forum this morning, Sean Coleman (a devout CTer, as I recall) posted the following - which, thanks to TG, is equally apt here:
This is not JFK.
This is political pie throwing.
It’s left wing spouting. Soap box shouting.
Opinionated bluff.
If we want this tripe we’ll watch the news, read the papers, catch up on our devices.
John [Simkin], this is your doing. Since you returned to comment you have strayed from the wonders of the assassination and gone all non relevant massively left wing biased political. I suppose this is your site though.
Again, I mention “Theories on the assassination” is parked in the waiting room, all Trump/Epstein crap gets centre stage!!?? Wrong way round innit!!
I think I’ve donated 150 to 250 clams to this site over the years because of its awesomeness. Which has gone.
Ps. My political views span both L & R. I subscribe to neither. More logical realist than rabid politico.
Lance Payette:
--- Quote from: Charles Collins on January 22, 2026, 12:52:17 AM ---
Trying to make the location selection of Dealey Plaza make sense seems problematic to me for anyone other than LHO to be involved. I doubt that anyone else would have chosen Dealey Plaza for a hit. There were way too many people and law enforcement officers present. However, since he worked there, it makes perfect sense for LHO. It just seems to have been a coincidence that everything essentially fell into LHO’s lap. I do give LHO credit for planning and executing an effective surprise ambush from behind and above.
--- End quote ---
Charles, you underestimate the KGB's abilities! They chose Dealey Plaza precisely BECAUSE it was so unlikely! :D :D :D (See what I did there? Of course, you do - because it's what CTers do with every inconvenient fact.)
If I put on my CT propeller beanie, it would have to be some plan (we'll say Mafia) where Oswald was on the radar screen by virtue of his activities in New Orleans, the plan started to come together after his employment at the TSBD and the announcement of JFK's trip to Texas, and the plan crystallized at the last minute when it became clear JFK would pass directly in front of the TSBD. Then, Dealey Plaza with Oswald in the TSBD and a pro in the Dal Tex or County Records building wouldn't be too bad.
Alas, the obstacles in trying to make that scenario plausible are near-insurmountable. It really just doesn't work, which requires CTers to expand the scenario to Oswald being "planted" in the TSBD, JFK's motorcade route being "manipulated" to pass in front of the TSBD, yada yada. John Orr cleverly avoids most obstacles by having Oswald being in active cooperation with the Mafia - but this itself is (to me) an insurmountable obstacle. Moreover, I really can't think of ANY plausible CT scenario that has Oswald going to Ruth Paine's with Frazier to retrieve his rifle the evening before the assassination (hence CTer's enthusiasm for the curtain rods tale - which then requires Oswald to be a completely unknowing patsy, and off we go).
Always, always, always, the fly in the CT ointment is the actual man Lee Harvey Oswald. He really just doesn't "work" as either a conspirator or a patsy, with the exception of a small, genuinely pro-Castro plot (LN+, as I call it). Pro-Castro incitement actually makes sense; KGB incitement, even in isolation completely apart from TG's grand narrative, simply does not.
Tom Graves:
--- Quote from: Lance Payette on January 22, 2026, 12:52:53 PM ---[Tom's] "grasp of all things KGB" is, of course, completely at odds with the CIA's own analyses in 1976 (Hart) and 2011 (Royden), as well as the many CIA colleagues who derided Angleton and Bagley's obsession with the imaginary "Monster Plot," and is derived almost entirely from the dubious sources he cites ad nauseam, which are rejected by the majority of intelligence scholars.
--- End quote ---
Dear FPL,
John L. Hart, former COS Saigon and the guy for whom Tennent H. Bagley "ripped a new one" during his HSCA testimony?
That John L. Hart?
https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32273600.pdf
-- Tom
PS "Mr. X" is KGB Major Anatoliy Golitsyn who defected to the U.S. on 15 December 1961.
PPS You should check out my new post at my Substack page, "How the KGB Zombified the CIA and the FBI."
It's titled "Fancy Pants gets a whuppin'"
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