JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate > JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate
The Strange Anti-Conspiracy Argument about Which View Is Less Troubling
Lance Payette:
--- Quote from: Benjamin Cole on January 07, 2026, 01:06:36 AM ---LP--
You are a little tough on JFKA researchers, but you make a lot of good points.
I thought you overlooked one aspect of JFKA research: Ideology.
The ideology drives the agenda, and the agenda drives the narrative.
Devout left-wingers have developed elaborate JFKA narratives (Vincent Salandria and others) that insist the JFKA was a plot involving dozens, if not more, and reached into highest levels of US government and capitalism. Not only that, elements of the CIA, the Pentagon, the Secret Service, the FBI, the Navy autopsists, the Dallas Police Department and the Dallas Sheriffs and DA, all played bit parts in the narrative. There have been even more participants that I have forgotten about. The media was totally onboard.
OTOH, former CIA Chief James Woolsey authored a book blaming the KGB for the JFKA.
The Education Forum is dominated by left-wing ideologues and crackpots who have all but snuffed out other points of view.
But there are other points of view.
My guess: Alpha 66, or KGB and G2 assets embedded in the Cuban community and the US intel community.
A very small plot, perhaps only three people, and that includes LHO.
--- End quote ---
Those motivated primarily by ideology are my category #3 above. I noticed this early-on at the Ed Forum and started a highly unpopular thread about it. I have to agree with Michael, however, that I think there is a strong ideological component to the fanatical LN defense community as well.
Your guess sounds considerably more elaborate than the small-scale conspiracy I thought you were suggesting. I could at least entertain either:
1. Oswald is influenced and perhaps made promises by some fellow pro-Castro types in New Orleans or Mexico City, but Dealey Plaza is pretty much the LN scenario.
2. Same as #1, but there is another pro-Castro gunman in the Dal Tex or County Records building.
3. Oswald makes a spectacle of himself in New Orleans to the extent that Marcello's folks recognize a made-to-order patsy. Oswald is induced to think he's part of a pro-Castro operation but in fact is part of a Mafia operation with a Mafia pro in the Dal Tex or County Records building.
I think there are LN objections to all three scenarios, but they are at least within the realm of possibility. Once we get into anything more elaborate or that requires Oswald to be anything other than the Castro-admiring Marxist he actually was, it seems to me that things quickly fall apart.
I see now that you posit perhaps only three people including LHO. It was the term "assets" that threw me.
Tom Graves:
--- Quote from: Lance Payette on January 07, 2026, 01:36:20 AM ---Those motivated primarily by ideology are my category #3 above. I noticed this early-on at the Ed Forum and started a highly unpopular thread about it. I have to agree with Michael, however, that I think there is a strong ideological component to the fanatical LN defense community as well.
Your guess sounds considerably more elaborate than the small-scale conspiracy I thought you were suggesting. I could at least entertain either:
1. Oswald is influenced and perhaps made promises by some fellow pro-Castro types in New Orleans or Mexico City, but Dealey Plaza is pretty much the LN scenario.
2. Same as #1, but there is another pro-Castro gunman in the Dal Tex or County Records building.
3. Oswald makes a spectacle of himself in New Orleans to the extent that Marcello's folks recognize a made-to-order patsy. Oswald is induced to think he's part of a pro-Castro operation but in fact is part of a Mafia operation with a Mafia pro in the Dal Tex or County Records building.
I think there are LN objections to all three scenarios, but they are at least within the realm of possibility. Once we get into anything more elaborate or that requires Oswald to be anything other than the Castro-admiring Marxist he actually was, it seems to me that things quickly fall apart.
I see now that you posit perhaps only three people including LHO. It was the term "assets" that threw me.
--- End quote ---
Dear FPR,
You forgot to mention that a big difference between Lone Gunman Advocates and KGB-encouraged, tinfoil-hat Conspiracy Theorists is that the latter require oodles and gobs of evil, evil "Deep State" bad guys for the planning, the "patsy-ing," the planting of evidence, the shooting, the getting-away, the altering of all of the Dealey Plaza films and photos, the altering of all of the Bethesda photos and x-rays, and the all-important (and evidently ongoing!!!) cover up.
-- Tom
Benjamin Cole:
TG-
Yes, you did mention ideologies. We think alike!
I find your scenarios plausible.
I suspect a second gunsel on Nov. 22, due to the cadence of shots that struck JFK and JBC. (Z-295 and Z-313).
The GK smoke-and-bang show suggests another participant as well.
The recent Kirk assassination, and the incredible close-miss Trump assassination attempt, destroy suggestions that only a skilled marksman could hit JFK on Nov. 22. Rank amateurs are dangerous, and from greater distances than seen in Dealey Plaza.
Tom Graves:
--- Quote from: Benjamin Cole on January 07, 2026, 07:12:45 AM ---Yes, you did mention ideologies. We think alike!
--- End quote ---
I did?
--- Quote ---I suspect a second gunsel on Nov. 22, due to the cadence of shots that struck JFK and JBC. (Z-295 and Z-313). The GK smoke-and-bang show suggests another participant as well. The recent Kirk assassination, and the incredible close-miss Trump assassination attempt, destroy suggestions that only a skilled marksman could hit JFK on Nov. 22. Rank amateurs are dangerous, and from greater distances than seen in Dealey Plaza.
--- End quote ---
We know ad nauseam what you suspect.
Flash-bang and dorsal side of the wrist.
Lance Payette:
--- Quote from: Tom Graves on January 07, 2026, 02:18:16 AM ---Dear FPR,
You forgot to mention that a big difference between Lone Gunman Advocates and KGB-encouraged, tinfoil-hat Conspiracy Theorists is that the latter require oodles and gobs of evil, evil "Deep State" bad guys for the planning, the "patsy-ing," the planting of evidence, the shooting, the getting-away, the altering of all of the Dealey Plaza films and photos, the altering of all of the Bethesda photos and x-rays, and the all-important (and evidently ongoing!!!) cover up.
-- Tom
--- End quote ---
Why would I have mentioned that? It's not what the thread is about. I can understand why YOU would mention that, because you are one-note broken record whose psychology spans several of my five categories.
Those who favor elaborate conspiracy theories are inevitably either in category #3, and thus need certain conspirators in order for the JFKA to have the monumental historical and ideological significance they attach to it, or category #4, and thus favor an elaborate, multi-faceted conspiracy because it's simply more fun as a jigsaw puzzle. In both cases, of course, there is considerable overlap with my category #5 - but this is usually fairly obvious and makes those in categories #3 and 4 somewhat more entertaining than they would otherwise be.
I have several little axioms I have developed over the years that guide my forays into the various species of weirdness. One I developed after extensive interactions with Young Earth Creationists, who insist the creation is approximately 6,500 years old. My axiom is, "You don't REALLY believe that. An assortment of social and psychological pressures may have caused you to say you believe that, and at some superficial level you may have even have convinced yourself you believe that, but you don't REALLY believe that. Sorry, but no sane person REALLY believes that." Another, closely related, which I've stated previously here, is, "Just because someone is intelligent, educated, articulate, successful, and seems reasonable about most things, do not assume that there is not some corner of his mind where he is almost COMPLETELY WHACKED and capable of convincing himself he believes utter nonsense about some pet topic." I have other useful axioms I could share with you - indeed, you in particular - but I am saving them for the forthcoming The Sayings of Chairman Lance.
What is kind of depressing to me about the JFKA research community is that pretty much no one seems to have any fun. It's all so grimly serious - very reminiscent of religious debates. Believe me, the Catholics, Southern Baptists, Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses do not regard each other with benign tolerance and realize that the whole enterprise of attempting to explain a deity in human terms is fundamentally absurd and, well ... a hoot. Ditto with the JFKA, or at least that's how it should be. At this stage, there's never going to be a breakthrough, something that changes the verdict of history. There just isn't. That's the reality. There will always be the LN narrative and 5,000 "Where the hell does THIS fit?" puzzle pieces that don't mesh perfectly. Your KGB* stuff, even if it once had a kernel of truth (which my best estimate is that it didn't), has become a comical obsession that has turned you into a tedious crank. Fortunately for you, there are those of us, good-natured and guided by our little axioms, who can see this and find it just part and parcel of what is the goofy Monty Python skit called "JFKA research."
*Now the SVR/FSB. BWAHAHA! :D
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