The JFKA and Gilberto Policarpo Lopez

[Tom Graves]

I have looked extensively at the Gilberto Policarpo Lopez stuff and I believe he had nothing to do with anything.

Basically, he had an american mother and he came to the united States in the early  1960s. He did not know english and could only get menial jobs. He got married, but he
developed epilepsy and had to be hospitalized. His marriage fell apart and he decided to go back to Cuba where his family could take care of him. His bad luck - he started his
trip back to Cuba during the weekend of the assassination. He flew to Havana on a cargo plane which is why he was the only passenger.

https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/jfk-destiny-betrayed-misleads-on-supposed-tampa-patsy


https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/was-gilberto-policarpo-lopez-an-assassin-or-a-patsy

Dear Fred,

His daughter, Lisbette, told me about five years ago that he was very good at faking epileptic seizures, and that he was "never sick a day in his life."


Lisbette xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 3:40 PM
to me

Hi Tom,

Here are some of the pictures I mentioned. He now lives in Miami with a brother who I always knew was a big time communist. I can’t remember the title of the book Iliana Ross wrote about him but may be easy to find. The black and white pictures are from Cuba. The color ones in Miami, mid 90’s. 

Thomas Graves xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 4:03 PM
to Lisbette

Thanks, Lisbette.

Let me ask you outright -- Do you think he might have been involved in any way in the JFK assassination? Has he said anything to you or done anything that might lead you to that conclusion?

(If you do, and don't want anyone else to know, I promise I won't tell anyone.)

One of my favorite authors, Mark Riebling, talks about him a little bit on pages 203, 205 and 206 in his 1994 book, "Wedge". 

(In the chapter titled "Sinister Implications".)

https://archive.org/details/WedgeFromPearlHarborTo911HowTheSecretWarBetweenTheFBIAndCIAHasEndangeredNationalSecurity/page/n2

Thank you for posting what you have posted so far at the forum, btw.

(I'm very unpopular there with members like Michael Clark and Jeff Stanton because I'm the only member (that I know of) who believes the KGB and/or Castro's DGF was behind the assassination ...)

LOL

-- Tom

Lisbette xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 4:15 PM
to me

All of his brothers, my uncles, were in the military and the oldest, Rafael, if I’m not getting their names confused, (was not my favorite side of the family) was a military attaché in Russia. I remember seeing pictures. My father, Gilberto, also traveled to East Germany before the wall was taken down but I think it was a work related travel or that is what I was told. He has always said he did not do it but he was always a man who did not talk about anything of his past, not even his childhood. We didn’t even know he had taken his mother, my grandmother’s US citizenship, when we were little. My mom found documents by chance one day. We knew he lived in the US, Tampa, Keys, went to Laredo, Mexico, and even met with communist groups. He is to the day a very mean and violent man so it would not surprise me if he did but he has never said. I mentioned he said he was the only one in the cargo plane but don’t know why he told us.

Thomas Graves xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 4:44 PM
to Lisbette

Fascinating stuff, Lisbette!

I'll read it again more closely, and "mull it over," later ...

Did you ever witness his having an epileptic seizure, or do you know for a fact that he took anti-seizure medicine?

Thanks,
-- Tom


Lisbette xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 5:12 PM
to me

He never took meds. Never saw him sick. He did martial arts and loved being in shape. And at one point wanted to go to a war in Africa. He told us many times how he faked the seizures and how no one knew it was fake. He did not want to get drafted.

Lisbette xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 5:38 PM
to me

I forgot to mentioned that days before we left Cuba, men in black, 3 of them, came to our apartment to tell him he would be arrested in the US because of the JFK. At the airport we were stopped and we almost thought we’d not be able to leave.

Thomas Graves xxxxxxxxxxxx
Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 7:23 PM
to Lisbette

Interesting.

What year was that?

Thomas Graves xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 11:02 PM
to Lisbette

Approximately?

Lisbette xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sun, Jul 28, 2019, 5:00 AM
to me

We left in 1995 but waited 2 years to get all documents in place. We all came legally because he, Gilberto, was a US citizen. And I remember asking why he didn’t tell us before because we could have left many years before. He said he thought that the citizenship had expired that he could not come back. Apparently we all thought he lived in the US for a few years, worked, and then got homesick. He said he missed his mother. But he was not one to visit her or even a daughter he had with his second marriage. My mom was the 3rd marriage. He was married to an older woman when he lived in the US. She took care of him. He was a lot younger than she was. During the 2 years, we went to the US embassy and no one arrested him. The men were Cuban intelligence I understood. If I remember correctly, it was weeks or days before going to the airport. I don’t know how anyone in the government could have known because we had to keep the process a secret to not call attention from communist neighbors. He was afraid to tell his brothers, especially Rafael and Reimundo, we called him Mundo. None of them were very nice people. They were all cold, angry, and violent. My mother’s family knew but they were anti Castro. I could not even tell friends until a day or two before leaving. The men looked like they came out of a movie, dressed in business suits, black suits and wearing dark glasses. It was odd and I heard how they were scaring my dad to not come to the US that he would be arrested because of the JFK.  I was 18.

Lisbette xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sun, Jul 28, 2019, 5:41 AM
to me

This is him a few weeks ago. Was posted on Facebook by his brother Rene. I’m not in contact with any of them. He lives with Rene and Rene’s family now.


Lisbette xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sun, Jul 28, 2019, 1:03 PM
to me

I’m ok sharing his younger picture only and to please keep confidential and to your discretion with whom you share it with. The others I am not sure I should. I want to respect his privacy and this photo was taken before he was part of my life.

This photo only [My comment: The sepia-tinted one you can find on the Internet]. The others when he is not alive. And again, making sure to say he always said he didn’t do it and that somehow he must have been in the wrong place, at the wrong time, and with his communist people.  He is mean on one side but very trusting on another and not impossible someone took advantage of that .

Thomas Graves xxxxxxxxxxxx
Sun, Jul 28, 2019, 2:34 PM
to Lisbette

Okay Lisbette, thanks.

I will protect his and your privacy as best I can.

Do you know what year this photo was taken, where it was taken, and how old he was at the time?

-- Tom

Lisbette xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sun, Jul 28, 2019, 2:42 PM
to me

I think it was his passport photo and taken in the 60’s but I am not 100% sure if the exact yr. The picture was taken before I was born and I was born in 76.

Thomas Graves xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sun, Jul 28, 2019, 4:00 PM
to Lisbette

Lisbette,

Communicating with you via the forum's messenger is problematic for me because it only lets me do one or two of them per day.

Email is much better.

Okay?

-- Tom

   
Thomas Graves xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sat, Apr 24, 2021, 10:29 PM
to me


Thomas Graves xxxxxxxxxxxx
Sat, Apr 24, 2021, 10:35 PM
to me

Hi Lisbette,

How are you?

I got kicked off that JFK Assassination Forum about a year and a-half ago, but as you can see I still have the photos you sent me before that. I've never shared two of those photos with anyone.

Let me ask you, is your father still alive?

Thanks,
-- Tom

[No reply]

. . . . . . .

-- Tom

[Benjamin Cole]

FL-

I enjoyed your two posts, and if and when I have time I will try to read some of the background.

Here is how AI answered the question "In 1963, was it common for passengers on travel on cargo planes to Cuba from Mexico?"


---30---

No, it was not common, but rather highly restricted and difficult due to U.S. embargoes and political tensions; travel to Cuba was effectively banned for most, especially Americans, by 1963, though some charter or private flights, potentially cargo-based, might have operated under specific, often unofficial, circumstances for certain individuals like Cubans seeking exile or urgent private business, but it wasn't typical passenger travel.

Context of Travel in 1963:

U.S. Embargo: The U.S. imposed a comprehensive trade embargo in the early 1960s, with Treasury Department regulations effectively banning financial transactions for travel to Cuba from 1963 to 1977, making it nearly impossible for most Americans.
Commercial Flights Suspended: Commercial airline flights between the U.S. and Cuba were suspended by February 1963.
Limited Exceptions: While official tourism ceased, some flights did occur, often for refugees leaving Cuba (the "Freedom Flights" started later in 1965, but similar movements existed) or for urgent private matters, but these weren't standard passenger routes.

Cargo Planes: Cargo planes could carry passengers, but this was usually for specific, non-commercial, or charter purposes, not common tourist routes, especially given the political climate.

In essence, 1963 was a period of severe restriction, making any travel to Cuba, especially via non-standard methods like cargo planes from Mexico, highly unusual and certainly not "common" for general passengers.

---30---

You have presented Gilberto Policarpo Lopez is an ordinary guy, with even fewer leftist credentials that LHO.

Yet, somehow Lopez was able to board a cargo plane to Havana?

Are you aware of anyone else, on an ad-hoc basis, hopping on a cargo plane to Havana from Mexico in 1963?

[Tom Graves]

FL-

I enjoyed your two posts, and if and when I have time I will try to read some of the background.

Here is how AI answered the question "In 1963, was it common for passengers on travel on cargo planes to Cuba from Mexico?"


---30---

No, it was not common, but rather highly restricted and difficult due to U.S. embargoes and political tensions; travel to Cuba was effectively banned for most, especially Americans, by 1963, though some charter or private flights, potentially cargo-based, might have operated under specific, often unofficial, circumstances for certain individuals like Cubans seeking exile or urgent private business, but it wasn't typical passenger travel.

Context of Travel in 1963:

U.S. Embargo: The U.S. imposed a comprehensive trade embargo in the early 1960s, with Treasury Department regulations effectively banning financial transactions for travel to Cuba from 1963 to 1977, making it nearly impossible for most Americans.
Commercial Flights Suspended: Commercial airline flights between the U.S. and Cuba were suspended by February 1963.
Limited Exceptions: While official tourism ceased, some flights did occur, often for refugees leaving Cuba (the "Freedom Flights" started later in 1965, but similar movements existed) or for urgent private matters, but these weren't standard passenger routes.

Cargo Planes: Cargo planes could carry passengers, but this was usually for specific, non-commercial, or charter purposes, not common tourist routes, especially given the political climate.

In essence, 1963 was a period of severe restriction, making any travel to Cuba, especially via non-standard methods like cargo planes from Mexico, highly unusual and certainly not "common" for general passengers.

---30---

You have presented Gilberto Policarpo Lopez is an ordinary guy, with even fewer leftist credentials that LHO.

Yet, somehow Lopez was able to board a cargo plane to Havana?

Are you are on anyone else, on an ad-hoc basis, hopping on a cargo plane to Havana from Mexico in 1963?

1) You'll never have the time.

2) "Are you are on anyone else, on an ad-hoc basis, hopping on a cargo plane to Havana from Mexico in 1963?"

Huh?

[Benjamin Cole]

Yes, I have a job. Little time.

From AI:

Yes, it is historically documented that Gilberto Policarpo Lopez traveled from Mexico City to Havana in late 1963 under unusual circumstances, though it was on a Cubana Airlines passenger flight, not a cargo plane.

Details of the event include:

The Flight: Lopez departed for Havana on November 27, 1963, via Cubana Flight #465.

Unusual Circumstances: While not a cargo plane, he was recorded as the only passenger on the flight, accompanied by a crew of nine Cubans. Intelligence reports noted the flight waited for hours for him to arrive and took off hastily once he was aboard.

Timing: His travel was deemed suspicious by intelligence agencies because it occurred just five days after the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. Lopez had crossed the border from the U.S. into Mexico on the day of the assassination.

Status: Although often described as an "ordinary traveler" or a Key West baker, his movements were heavily scrutinized by the CIA and FBI. Some researchers and declassified documents have raised questions about his potential links to the assassination or intelligence agencies, though no official conspiracy was ever proven.

Lopez reportedly remained in Cuba for some time after the flight before eventually returning to the United States, where he died in Florida in 2021.

---30---

Well, the National Aquarium is fishy, and so is Mr. Lopez.

[Tom Graves]

Yes, I have a job. Little time.

From AI:

Yes, it is historically documented that Gilberto Policarpo Lopez traveled from Mexico City to Havana in late 1963 under unusual circumstances, though it was on a Cubana Airlines passenger flight, not a cargo plane.

Details of the event include:

The Flight: Lopez departed for Havana on November 27, 1963, via Cubana Flight #465.

Unusual Circumstances: While not a cargo plane, he was recorded as the only passenger on the flight, accompanied by a crew of nine Cubans. Intelligence reports noted the flight waited for hours for him to arrive and took off hastily once he was aboard.

Timing: His travel was deemed suspicious by intelligence agencies because it occurred just five days after the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. Lopez had crossed the border from the U.S. into Mexico on the day of the assassination.

Status: Although often described as an "ordinary traveler" or a Key West baker, his movements were heavily scrutinized by the CIA and FBI. Some researchers and declassified documents have raised questions about his potential links to the assassination or intelligence agencies, though no official conspiracy was ever proven.

Lopez reportedly remained in Cuba for some time after the flight before eventually returning to the United States, where he died in Florida in 2021.

His daughter says he always referred to it as a cargo plane.

[Benjamin Cole]

TG-

Love the Batman logo.

I cannot access National Archives at the moment. Some sort of glitch. Some memos in the NA are cited as evidence that Lopez rode on an otherwise empty passenger jet.

[Benjamin Cole]

On Nov. 27, Lopez entered Cuban on a "Cuban courtesy visa."

AI:

"In 1963, a Cuban "courtesy visa" was a specific type of travel document, likely granted by Cuban authorities, used by individuals like operative Gilberto Lopez to enter Cuba from Mexico, possibly to facilitate intelligence work or specific missions, operating outside normal tourist channels due to the U.S. embargo and severed diplomatic ties, allowing agents to move covertly for political reasons."

All of this sounds fishy to me.