Did Oswald dry-fire his rifle in New Orleans using live ammo?

[Gerry Down]

According to Marina, Oswald used dry-fire his rifle on their front porch in New Orleans. Normally one uses no bullets when dry-firing or uses special blanks. A small number of people however might use live rounds, at least in the bottom of the clip (with empty shells in the top of the clip), in the belief this would mimic the correct weight of a rifle in a live-fire situation to include the weight of the bullets.

Using live rounds like this in the bottom of the clip with dummy rounds at the top of the clip is dangerous however as one might miscount how many times they have dry-fired the rifle and then accidentally fire off one of the live rounds in the bottom of the clip.

There is suggestive evidence Oswald might have been using live rounds in this reckless manner in New Orleans while dry-firing. The below video highlights a rarely mentioned characteristic that was observed on the spent shells (and also on the one live round found in Oswalds rifle) found on the 6th floor of the TSBD. Apparently the mechanism inside the Mannlicher Carcano rifle which holds the live rounds has a bent piece of metal under the live rounds that acts like a spring forcing the bullets upwards after each previous shell has been ejected following the working of the bolt action. Because the bottom bullet in the clip is in contact with this lifter spring piece of metal when it is forcing the bullets upwards, the spring leaves a slight scrape on the bottom bullet.

If one were to load the Mannicher Carcano clip with say 6 rounds fresh out of a box of bullets (the clip holds a maximum of 6 rounds) or in the case on 11/22/63 when it was only loaded with 4 rounds, only the bottom bullet in the clip would be in contact with the lifter spring. Therefore only the bottom bullet of the 4 would end up with the scrape from the lifter spring. The last bullet in Oswald rifle (the one that was never fired) did indeed have this scrape mark as one would expect. However, also two of the spent shells found on the floor of the snipers nest also had this scrape mark.

This would apparently suggest that at some point in the past, two of the bullets that were fired at JFK had at some point in the past been loaded into the rifles clip and been the bullet at the bottom of the clip directly in contact with the lifter spring, then been scraped by the metal spring as a result, and then taken back out of the rifle only to be later used in the assassination on Nov 22nd 1963. It paints a picture of live rounds being repeatedly put into the rifle and then being taken back out.

Is it possible Oswald had repeatedly loaded live rounds into his rifle in New Orleans while dry-firing the rifle, and then taken them back out after the dry-firing exercise, and this is how the bullets got the scrape marks?

Most people familiar with firearms would find dry-firing using live ammo in the bottom of the clip completely reckless, though a small number of people might do it. This reddit thread has people giving their opinion: https://www.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/1h57ja3/dry_firing_with_weight/

Here is the video outlining the scrape marks on the bullets:

P.S. Is anyone familar with the practice of dry-firing a rifle. Is it possible to eject a full round (ie casing with bullet still attched) from a rifle by working the bolt?

The fact that 3 of the casings recovered (one of which was the casing which still had the bullet in it) had scrape marks, this would appear to suggest that when Oswald was dry-firing the rifle in New Orleans, he only had a limited number of bullets available and so had to keep using the same bullets, hence why 3 of the 4 casings discovered in the snipers nest had scrape marks.

Therefore, we should not be surprised that no bullets were ever found among Oswalds possessions other than the ones found in the snipers nest. The scrape mark being present on so many of the casings in the snipers nest arguably suggests that whoever owned this rifle did not have many bullets.

 

[Charles Collins]

According to Marina, Oswald used dry-fire his rifle on their front porch in New Orleans. Normally one uses no bullets when dry-firing or uses special blanks. A small number of people however might use live rounds, at least in the bottom of the clip (with empty shells in the top of the clip), in the belief this would mimic the correct weight of a rifle in a live-fire situation to include the weight of the bullets.

Using live rounds like this in the bottom of the clip with dummy rounds at the top of the clip is dangerous however as one might miscount how many times they have dry-fired the rifle and then accidentally fire off one of the live rounds in the bottom of the clip.

There is suggestive evidence Oswald might have been using live rounds in this reckless manner in New Orleans while dry-firing. The below video highlights a rarely mentioned characteristic that was observed on the spent shells (and also on the one live round found in Oswalds rifle) found on the 6th floor of the TSBD. Apparently the mechanism inside the Mannlicher Carcano rifle which holds the live rounds has a bent piece of metal under the live rounds that acts like a spring forcing the bullets upwards after each previous shell has been ejected following the working of the bolt action. Because the bottom bullet in the clip is in contact with this lifter spring piece of metal when it is forcing the bullets upwards, the spring leaves a slight scrape on the bottom bullet.

If one were to load the Mannicher Carcano clip with say 6 rounds fresh out of a box of bullets (the clip holds a maximum of 6 rounds) or in the case on 11/22/63 when it was only loaded with 4 rounds, only the bottom bullet in the clip would be in contact with the lifter spring. Therefore only the bottom bullet of the 4 would end up with the scrape from the lifter spring. The last bullet in Oswald rifle (the one that was never fired) did indeed have this scrape mark as one would expect. However, also two of the spent shells found on the floor of the snipers nest also had this scrape mark.

This would apparently suggest that at some point in the past, two of the bullets that were fired at JFK had at some point in the past been loaded into the rifles clip and been the bullet at the bottom of the clip directly in contact with the lifter spring, then been scraped by the metal spring as a result, and then taken back out of the rifle only to be later used in the assassination on Nov 22nd 1963. It paints a picture of live rounds being repeatedly put into the rifle and then being taken back out.

Is it possible Oswald had repeatedly loaded live rounds into his rifle in New Orleans while dry-firing the rifle, and then taken them back out after the dry-firing exercise, and this is how the bullets got the scrape marks?

Most people familiar with firearms would find dry-firing using live ammo in the bottom of the clip completely reckless, though a small number of people might do it. This reddit thread has people giving their opinion: https://www.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/1h57ja3/dry_firing_with_weight/

Here is the video outlining the scrape marks on the bullets:

P.S. Is anyone familar with the practice of dry-firing a rifle. Is it possible to eject a full round (ie casing with bullet still attched) from a rifle by working the bolt?

The fact that 3 of the casings recovered (one of which was the casing which still had the bullet in it) had scrape marks, this would appear to suggest that when Oswald was dry-firing the rifle in New Orleans, he only had a limited number of bullets available and so had to keep using the same bullets, hence why 3 of the 4 casings discovered in the snipers nest had scrape marks.

Therefore, we should not be surprised that no bullets were ever found among Oswalds possessions other than the ones found in the snipers nest. The scrape mark being present on so many of the casings in the snipers nest arguably suggests that whoever owned this rifle did not have many bullets.

All we can do is guess what actually happened. My guess is that if those are marks from the spring loaded follower in the clip, then the more likely scenario would be that he had loaded those cartridges when he was actually going to fire the rifle. That could have been for target practice or for zeroing in the scope. If for one reason or another he didn’t need to fire all of the cartridges, then unloading them (still unfired) could have left the marks in my opinion. I think that you probably agree that dry firing on the screen porch with live ammunition potentially getting inadvertently fired is way too risky. I would seriously doubt that LHO would have been that reckless under those circumstances.

[Michael T. Griffith]

In his internal critique of the draft of the Warren Report, WC attorney Wesley Liebeler spent considerable time addressing the questionable claims regarding the rifle and Oswald's marksmanship, including Marina's coached tale about his allegedly sighting the scope on his porch in New Orleans:

7. The statements concerning Oswald's practice with the assassination weapon are misleading. They tend to give the impression that he did more practicing than the record suggests that he did. My recollection is that there is only one specific time when he might
have practiced. We should be more precise in this area, because the Commission is going
to have its work in this area examined very closely.

8. On the top of galley page 51 we have that statement about Oswald sighting the telescopic sight at night on the porch in New Orleans. I think the support for that proposition is thin indeed. Marina Oswald first testified that she did not know what he was doing out there and then she was clearly led into the only answer that gives any support to this proposition.

9. I think the level of reaching that is going on in this whole discussion of rifle capability is merely shown by the fact that under the heading of rifle practice outside the Marine Corps appears the damning statement that "Oswald showed an interest in rifles by discussing that subject with others (in fact only one person as I remember it) and reading gun magazines". . . .

You can't leave a rifle and scope laying around in a garage underfoot for almost 3 months, just having brought it back from New Orleans in the back of a station wagon, and expect to hit anything with it, unless you take the trouble to fire it and sight the scope in. This would have been a problem that should have been dealt with in any event, and now that it turns out that there actually was a defect in the scope, it is perfectly clear that the question must be considered. The present draft leaves the Commission open to severe criticism. Furthermore, to the extent that it leaves testimony suggesting that the shots might not have been so easy out of the discussion, thereby giving only a part of the story, it is simply dishonest. (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NwjxgWlJ77Y6wFFj0Vr7hbi8C9muDZOc/view?pli=1)

Indeed, it is, but that has never stopped WC apologists from repeating the myth of an easy shooting or stopped them from ignoring the critical need to sight-in the scope before the assassination, not to mention their refusal to face the fact that the ammo that hit JFK's head behaved nothing like FMJ ammo (the kind of ammo Oswald allegedly used).

When Could Oswald Have "Zeroed" (Sighted-In) the Alleged Murder Weapon?
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,4543.0.html

The 1967 CBS Rifle Test: More Evidence Against the Lone-Gunman Theory
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,4580.0.html

What Would a Valid Lone-Gunman Rifle Test Look Like?
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,4589.msg170647.html#msg170647

[Mitch Todd]

According to Marina, Oswald used dry-fire his rifle on their front porch in New Orleans. Normally one uses no bullets when dry-firing or uses special blanks. A small number of people however might use live rounds, at least in the bottom of the clip (with empty shells in the top of the clip), in the belief this would mimic the correct weight of a rifle in a live-fire situation to include the weight of the bullets.

Using live rounds like this in the bottom of the clip with dummy rounds at the top of the clip is dangerous however as one might miscount how many times they have dry-fired the rifle and then accidentally fire off one of the live rounds in the bottom of the clip.

There is suggestive evidence Oswald might have been using live rounds in this reckless manner in New Orleans while dry-firing. The below video highlights a rarely mentioned characteristic that was observed on the spent shells (and also on the one live round found in Oswalds rifle) found on the 6th floor of the TSBD. Apparently the mechanism inside the Mannlicher Carcano rifle which holds the live rounds has a bent piece of metal under the live rounds that acts like a spring forcing the bullets upwards after each previous shell has been ejected following the working of the bolt action. Because the bottom bullet in the clip is in contact with this lifter spring piece of metal when it is forcing the bullets upwards, the spring leaves a slight scrape on the bottom bullet.

If one were to load the Mannicher Carcano clip with say 6 rounds fresh out of a box of bullets (the clip holds a maximum of 6 rounds) or in the case on 11/22/63 when it was only loaded with 4 rounds, only the bottom bullet in the clip would be in contact with the lifter spring. Therefore only the bottom bullet of the 4 would end up with the scrape from the lifter spring. The last bullet in Oswald rifle (the one that was never fired) did indeed have this scrape mark as one would expect. However, also two of the spent shells found on the floor of the snipers nest also had this scrape mark.

This would apparently suggest that at some point in the past, two of the bullets that were fired at JFK had at some point in the past been loaded into the rifles clip and been the bullet at the bottom of the clip directly in contact with the lifter spring, then been scraped by the metal spring as a result, and then taken back out of the rifle only to be later used in the assassination on Nov 22nd 1963. It paints a picture of live rounds being repeatedly put into the rifle and then being taken back out.

Is it possible Oswald had repeatedly loaded live rounds into his rifle in New Orleans while dry-firing the rifle, and then taken them back out after the dry-firing exercise, and this is how the bullets got the scrape marks?

Most people familiar with firearms would find dry-firing using live ammo in the bottom of the clip completely reckless, though a small number of people might do it. This reddit thread has people giving their opinion: https://www.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/1h57ja3/dry_firing_with_weight/

Here is the video outlining the scrape marks on the bullets:

P.S. Is anyone familar with the practice of dry-firing a rifle. Is it possible to eject a full round (ie casing with bullet still attched) from a rifle by working the bolt?

The fact that 3 of the casings recovered (one of which was the casing which still had the bullet in it) had scrape marks, this would appear to suggest that when Oswald was dry-firing the rifle in New Orleans, he only had a limited number of bullets available and so had to keep using the same bullets, hence why 3 of the 4 casings discovered in the snipers nest had scrape marks.

Therefore, we should not be surprised that no bullets were ever found among Oswalds possessions other than the ones found in the snipers nest. The scrape mark being present on so many of the casings in the snipers nest arguably suggests that whoever owned this rifle did not have many bullets.

This is simply a bad idea. period. Granted, it's a good idea if you like the thought of negligently shooting something or someone you don't intend to when you don't intend to do it.

It's also unnecessary in Oswald's case. The Reddit thread is about practicing with a a pistol, specifically WRT concealed carry. In context, this is about loading 10-15 rounds of ammunition into a pistol, and a small one at that. Those 15 rounds in a Glock 19 are going to make a noticeable difference in the heft of the pistol, but adding 6 rounds to the much greater weight of a Carcano is going to make no noticeable difference to the rifle's handling.