Proof Rosemary Willis had started looking towards the TSBD by Z-145

[Charles Collins]

    Roughly 2.3 seconds between the end of the Towner Film and the Croft Photo? I have a problem with that extended time spacing. The Croft Photo shows almost the end of the short wall that those people were sitting on. A sidewalk runs down the other side of that wall. That sidewalk ends at the Tall Stone Monument. This tall stone monument is close to the RL Thornton sign. The Tall Stone Monument and the RL Thornton Sign are landmarks/bookends to keep in mind. The Towner Film shows the JFK Limo passing by the stone monument. The stone monument is then completely out of the Towner film. The JFK Theorist has posted 3 different versions of the Towner Film on YOU TUBE. The 3rd version is the Sixth Floor Museum copy with between the sprocket holes. I recommend examining that copy of Towner Film. A shot was allegedly fired at about the point where the JFK Limo passes by the Thornton sign. This is also the point where the Willis girl pulls up/stops running. I believe 2.3 seconds between the Towner/Croft images is way too long. Originally, the elapsed time for ALL 3 shots was 6 seconds. Now we have 2 images showing the JFK Limo reaching the Thornton sign with an alleged time gap between the 2 images being 2.3 seconds? Really? If this extended 2.3 second time gap is accurate, we once again have JFK Assassination Images in conflict. What new?   

Take a look at the following image. It shows the location of the vehicles at about .05 seconds after Zapruder’s film segment begins. This would still be be less than a second after the Towner film segment ends. I have drawn a red line to depict Tina Towner’s angle to JFK. I have drawn a blue line to depict Croft’s angle to JFK.



Please notice that in Tina Towner’s angle that the middle area of the background includes the east shelter of the north pergola. Please notice that in Croft’s angle that the TSBD is in the middle area of the background at that particular time (a little over 2 seconds before Croft actually took his photo). The pergola shelter is significantly past (aka: to the west of) the TSBD. Yet the two different backgrounds would be shown in a (hypothetical) photo from Tina and Croft that were taken at the exact same time. That effect caused by the two different points of view (aka: angles) is something that I think you need to take into account in your assessment. If you do, I think you might see that there really isn’t any conflict between the two images.

For what it is worth, I believe that I have read that at the average speed of the limo it would be traveling roughly one foot per Zapruder frame or roughly one car length per second.

[Royell Storing]

   The image you posted depicting the area that the Croft Photo included is wrong. Based on that image, the Croft Photo should include the Tall Stone Monument at the end of the sidewalk extending down from the East Shelter. That tall stone monument is Not on the 3 different copies of the Croft Photo I looked at.
    I prefer to address 1 issue at a time regarding the image you posted. I believe this image has other distance issues within it. Since we are talking about when a shot was possibly fired, distances between landmarks are critical.   

[Andrew Mason]

Per Tina Towner in her book:

I believe Daddy was about to head down the hill to get another photo, but there was not enough time before the first gunshot sounded—only a second or two, if that, after I stopped filming.

If I remember correctly, her film stops about one second before Z133.

Here is Tina Towner's last frame:


This is the position of JFK on Elm St. at that time. The sightline from Tina Towner to JFK goes through the motorcyclist's helmet which is between the east end of the pillar on the pergola and the darker pillar to the right side of the helmet:

In her Sixth Floor Oral History from 1996 she said the first shot occurred 4 or 5 maybe 6 seconds after she stopped filming - see the 1:14:40 point of the video:
 


This is consistent with what she previously said she did between the time she stopped filming and the first shot, although her previous estimates of the time were 1 or 2 seconds or a few seconds. 

[Charles Collins]

   The image you posted depicting the area that the Croft Photo included is wrong. Based on that image, the Croft Photo should include the Tall Stone Monument at the end of the sidewalk extending down from the East Shelter. That tall stone monument is Not on the 3 different copies of the Croft Photo I looked at.
    I prefer to address 1 issue at a time regarding the image you posted. I believe this image has other distance issues within it. Since we are talking about when a shot was possibly fired, distances between landmarks are critical.

Read my post again please. I DID NOT indicate that Croft’s angle was of the point in time when he took his photo. That was over 2-seconds later.

[Charles Collins]

 

Here is Tina Towner's last frame:


This is the position of JFK on Elm St. at that time. The sightline from Tina Towner to JFK goes through the motorcyclist's helmet which is between the east end of the pillar on the pergola and the darker pillar to the right side of the helmet:

In her Sixth Floor Oral History from 1996 she said the first shot occurred 4 or 5 maybe 6 seconds after she stopped filming - see the 1:14:40 point of the video:
 


This is consistent with what she previously said she did between the time she stopped filming and the first shot, although her previous estimates of the time were 1 or 2 seconds or a few seconds.

I think you might be looking at the Towner frame incorrectly Andrew. I have outlined the door to the pergola shelter with yellow lines. This is well past the pillar that I think you are trying to align things to. Watch the Towner film and I think you will see that pillar disappear off the right side of the frames well before the film segments end.

As far as my diagram goes, it depicts the positions at almost a second after the Towner film ends. So back the limo up accordingly and you will see that things align close to what I showed.

[Royell Storing]

Read my post again please. I DID NOT indicate that Croft’s angle was of the point in time when he took his photo. That was over 2-seconds later.

   You're quibbling now. You previously stated that 2 seconds is ONLY about 2 CAR lengths. That image is incorrect with respect to the Croft camera cone. The Tall Stone Monument should be in the Croft Photo per that cone. And the RL Thornton sign WAS extremely close to the Tall Stone Monument. This is why they consistently have moved, removed, and relocated landmarks inside Dealey Plaza. Over time, living eyewitnesses and researchers lose track of what was where, and how these Dealey Plaza landmarks related to each other. We saw this Hocus-Pocus in action when Max Holland moved the JFK Limo location on Elm St. by confusing Tina Towner via missing signage on "The Lost Bullet". I would include Euins too, but I do Not believe he was near the Toni Glover pedestal as he claims.

[Charles Collins]

   You're quibbling now. You previously stated that 2 seconds is ONLY about 2 CAR lengths. That image is incorrect with respect to the Croft camera cone. The Tall Stone Monument should be in the Croft Photo per that cone. And the RL Thornton sign WAS extremely close to the Tall Stone Monument. This is why they consistently have moved, removed, and relocated landmarks inside Dealey Plaza. Over time, living eyewitnesses and researchers lose track of what was where, and how these Dealey Plaza landmarks related to each other. We saw this Hocus-Pocus in action when Max Holland moved the JFK Limo location on Elm St. by confusing Tina Towner via missing signage on "The Lost Bullet". I would include Euins too, but I do Not believe he was near the Toni Glover pedestal as he claims.

Here’s the Croft photo:



It appears to me that the bend in the wall in the background is aligned pretty much with Jackie and JFK. And that it is also in the middle area of the photo.

Now, here is the same diagram I submitted before, that you thought was wrong, with some additions for the Croft photo position. I already said that the diagram depicts the limo position close to, but less than, a second after the end of the Towner film segment. That makes the limo position in the diagram already placed close to but slightly less that a car length past the point that it was when the Towner film segment ends. Therefore if we add one more car length we should be getting reasonably close to two car lengths past the position it was when the Towner film segment ends; which I already indicated equals roughly 2-seconds.



The black lines I added indicate the position of the limo, as I described above, and the angle of the Croft photo taken at the proper point in time. Notice that the bend in the wall is aligned with the position where Jackie and JFK would be seated in the limo. These diagrams are only rough estimates. You can quibble if you wish; but please keep in mind that these are only rough estimates.