The Zany Theory that Only Two Shots Were Fired During the Assassination

[Charles Collins]

"Herb Huskr" at the "JFK Truth Be Told" Facebook page has shown that the chip and lead/antimony smear on the curb may have been caused by a bullet fragment from the Z-313 head shot.

I have never heard of Herb Huskr. However, at least one well respected researcher that I know also believes that idea. I think it is definitely a good possibility. I created a thread a while back titled “The Other Single Bullet Theory” that suggests it could have been an early shot that missed the limo. After ricocheting off of Main Street it hit the manhole apron then ricocheted again and hit the south curb on Main Street near where Tague was standing. It’s just an idea, but the evidence seems to me to be consistent with it.

[Michael T. Griffith]

The direction of the bullet holes in the debris on the corner of the manhole apron indicates it came from the direction of the TSBD and went towards the area where Tague was wounded.

This is just nutty and ridiculous.

Officer Foster saw the bullet hit the grass and he radioed it in. Of course, WC apologists ignore his 11/22 radio transmission and rely on the changed story that he gave to the WC. They also ignore the 11/23 and 11/24 local press accounts of the bullet strike in the grass and of the recovery of a bullet from the grass.

What was the object that the agent in the suit reached down and picked up from the hole in the grass near the manhole cover? Huh? He reached down to the hole, then brought his hand up in cupping shape as if holding something, then put his hand in his pocket. What did he pick up? Dirt? No, he picked up a bullet, and everyone acknowledged this until it was realized that the miss and the recovered bullet did not fit the lone-gunman scenario.

Of course, we see the silly, long-debunked denials that a bullet hit the curb near Tague and sent a concrete or metal fragment streaking toward Tague to cut his face. Henry Hurt established back in the 1980s with the aid of construction experts that the hole in the Tague curb was patched. And, of course, there's also the fact that when Harold Weisberg sued to get access to the spectrographic plate of the curb hole sample, the FBI destroyed the plate, claiming a "lack of space." But the early evidence, before anyone knew what they were supposed to say, is clear that a bullet left an obvious bullet hole in the curb and that Tague was hit with a fragment from the bullet strike.

We just go around and around with these WC apologists. They won't admit anything. They repeat silly myths that were concocted to deny clear evidence of multiple gunmen. We have two clear cases of extra misses and an extra bullet that destroy the lone-gunman theory, but WC apologists will never admit it and will continue to float bogus theories to deny this evidence.

[Charles Collins]

This is just nutty and ridiculous.

Officer Foster saw the bullet hit the grass and he radioed it in. Of course, WC apologists ignore his 11/22 radio transmission and rely on the changed story that he gave to the WC. They also ignore the 11/23 and 11/24 local press accounts of the bullet strike in the grass and of the recovery of a bullet from the grass.

What was the object that the agent in the suit reached down and picked up from the hole in the grass near the manhole cover? Huh? He reached down to the hole, then brought his hand up in cupping shape as if holding something, then put his hand in his pocket. What did he pick up? Dirt? No, he picked up a bullet, and everyone acknowledged this until it was realized that the miss and the recovered bullet did not fit the lone-gunman scenario.

Of course, we see the silly, long-debunked denials that a bullet hit the curb near Tague and sent a concrete or metal fragment streaking toward Tague to cut his face. Henry Hurt established back in the 1980s with the aid of construction experts that the hole in the Tague curb was patched. And, of course, there's also the fact that when Harold Weisberg sued to get access to the spectrographic plate of the curb hole sample, the FBI destroyed the plate, claiming a "lack of space." But the early evidence, before anyone knew what they were supposed to say, is clear that a bullet left an obvious bullet hole in the curb and that Tague was hit with a fragment from the bullet strike.

We just go around and around with these WC apologists. They won't admit anything. They repeat silly myths that were concocted to deny clear evidence of multiple gunmen. We have two clear cases of extra misses and an extra bullet that destroy the lone-gunman theory, but WC apologists will never admit it and will continue to float bogus theories to deny this evidence.

Please cite any evidence of the radio transmission by Foster you claim he made.

Also, here is a snippet from “Reclaiming History” by Vincent Bugliosi, page 3600-3601:


Walther’s Warren Commission testimony and later statements were corroborated by what Dallas patrolman J. W. Foster told the Warren Commission in 1964. Asked, “Did you recover any bullet?” Foster replied, “No, sir. It ricocheted on out” (6 H 252; see also Sneed, No More Silence, pp.212–213). In fact, it was Foster who provided the most lucid account of what happened, in a 1987 interview with interviewer Larry Sneed. “The plaza had been freshly mowed the day before,” Foster said, “thus I noticed this clump of sod that was laying there and was trying to find out what caused that clump of grass to be there. That’s when I found where the bullet had struck the concrete skirt by the manhole cover and knocked that clump of grass up. Buddy Walthers, one of the sheriff’s deputies, came up and talked to me about it, and we discussed the direction from which the bullet had come. It struck the skirt near the manhole cover and then hit this person [a reference to eyewitness James Tague] who had stood by the column over on Commerce Street. He came by and had a cut on his face where the bullet had struck the column. You could see about where the bullet had come from by checking the angle where it scraped across the concrete and the column where it struck the pedestrian. It appeared to have come from the northeast, approximately from the book store area, but we were never able to find the slug . . . I contacted my sergeant, C.F. Williams. He told me to remain there until they got down there and had some pictures taken, which they did.” (Sneed, No More Silence, pp.212–213)


Plus some of the photos clearly show the direction of the bullet’s trajectory.

[Michael T. Griffith]

The lone-gunman theory is such a fragile house of cards that its defenders must offer ridiculous, convoluted explanations for straightforward, well-documented cases of missed shots and extra bullets, such as the bullet that Officer Foster saw hit the grass near the manhole cover on the south side of Elm Street. Before anyone realized that this miss and bullet were fatal to the lone-gunman theory, they were freely acknowledged, even by Lt. J. C. (Carl) Day. And, needless to say, the tiny minority of WC apologists who hold to the silly theory that only two shots were fired during the assassination must dismiss all misses and extra bullets.

Dr. Donald Thomas's analysis of the manhole-cover-grass miss and recovered bullet is worth quoting at length:

Without asking Foster what spurred him to look for a bullet, or why he searched where he did, Counsel Joseph Ball queried in an offhanded aside, "Find anything?" To which Foster responded,

"Yes, sir. Found where one shot had hit the turf there at the location."

There then followed a somewhat convoluted account in which Foster variously declared that the bullet had hit a manhole cover, that it had ricocheted off the pavement surrounding the manhole cover, or that directly or indirectly, it had wound up in the turf. Foster allowed that he had not actually found a bullet but he did call the crime scene unit's attention to the spot. Predictably, the Warren Commission took no further interest in Foster's testimony. That is to say, neither the crime scene unit, or Foster's partner J.C. White, who was with Foster on the Triple Underpass, were asked about the incident.

As it happens, Dallas Times Herald reporters interviewed crime scene detective Carl Day about the incident on the day after the assassination. In these early days before gag orders had been issued, Day told reporters that he had measured the distance from the sixth floor window to the spot where the bullet had been recovered in the turf at 100 yards!

The Saturday edition of the Fort Worth Star Telegram published a photograph of the turf next to the manhole cover with the caption,

"Assassin's Bullet - One of the rifle bullets fired by the murderer of President Kennedy lies in the grass across Elm Street from the building in which the killer was hiding and from where he launched his assault."

Harry Cabluck, the news photographer who took the picture, told researcher Jim Marrs that he did not actually see the bullet but was told by someone that a bullet had struck the grass at this spot.

There were other contemporary reports. St. Louis Dispatch journalist Richard Dudman was among the witnesses in Dealey Plaza. His firsthand report states,

"A group of police officers were examining the area at the side of the street where the President was hit, and a police inspector told me they had just found another bullet in the grass."

The FBI also learned of the incident. Witness Jean Lois Hill was interviewed by agents at the Sheriffs headquarters that afternoon. Learning that she had been standing on the Dealey Plaza lawn, they asked her if she had seen a bullet hit the grass (she had not). Another witness, Hugh Betzner, told Dallas agents that he had seen police digging for a bullet in the lawn.

Researcher Jim Marrs located and interviewed two other witnesses mentioned in the FBI report: Wayne and Edna Hartman told the FBI that they had seen the ground mounded up and asked the policemen if it was the work of moles. They were told that bullets had struck the ground. Nor was Foster the only person to see the initial strike. Richard Randolph Carr testified that one shot "knocked a bunch of grass up."

The factor which lends weight to these accounts is that the whole incident was recorded in photographs taken by Black Star photographer, Jim Murray. With the Texas School Book Depository as a backdrop, and the Hertz clock on the roof reading 12:40, patrolman Foster can be seen with other officers hovering over the manhole cover on the south side of Elm Street (Fig. 11.4). In the series of photographs a sandy-haired man with a side-wall hair cut and a dark gray suit is seen bent over and probing the turf with his left hand. He rises with his left hand making a fist--seeming to clutch something--then in the next picture his hand is stuffed deep into his left side pants pocket.

The man in the pictures was later identified by police chief Jesse Curry as an FBI agent. Yet, he has never been officially identified. Prominent in the photographs, wearing a black suit, is Deputy Sheriff Ed "Buddy" Walthers. Just before testifying to the Warren Commission, the Commission's counsel exchanged an internal memorandum containing a statement concerning Walthers and the incident.

"At one time Walthers was quoted as having found a bullet, but he seems to have backed away from this position."

This memorandum suggests that the Commission was in receipt of a report or document quoting Walthers as having found a bullet and/or subsequently retracting. No such reports or documents are now present in the Archives. In subsequent years Walthers' wife Dorothy told researcher Mark Oakes (who told this writer) that her late husband had told her they had indeed found a bullet in the grass. (Hear No Evil, Mary Ferrell Foundation Press, 2010, pp. 400-401)

[Jack Nessan]

The lone-gunman theory is such a fragile house of cards that its defenders must offer ridiculous, convoluted explanations for straightforward, well-documented cases of missed shots and extra bullets, such as the bullet that Officer Foster saw hit the grass near the manhole cover on the south side of Elm Street. Before anyone realized that this miss and bullet were fatal to the lone-gunman theory, they were freely acknowledged, even by Lt. J. C. (Carl) Day. And, needless to say, the tiny minority of WC apologists who hold to the silly theory that only two shots were fired during the assassination must dismiss all misses and extra bullets.

Dr. Donald Thomas's analysis of the manhole-cover-grass miss and recovered bullet is worth quoting at length:

Without asking Foster what spurred him to look for a bullet, or why he searched where he did, Counsel Joseph Ball queried in an offhanded aside, "Find anything?" To which Foster responded,

"Yes, sir. Found where one shot had hit the turf there at the location."

There then followed a somewhat convoluted account in which Foster variously declared that the bullet had hit a manhole cover, that it had ricocheted off the pavement surrounding the manhole cover, or that directly or indirectly, it had wound up in the turf. Foster allowed that he had not actually found a bullet but he did call the crime scene unit's attention to the spot. Predictably, the Warren Commission took no further interest in Foster's testimony. That is to say, neither the crime scene unit, or Foster's partner J.C. White, who was with Foster on the Triple Underpass, were asked about the incident.

As it happens, Dallas Times Herald reporters interviewed crime scene detective Carl Day about the incident on the day after the assassination. In these early days before gag orders had been issued, Day told reporters that he had measured the distance from the sixth floor window to the spot where the bullet had been recovered in the turf at 100 yards!

The Saturday edition of the Fort Worth Star Telegram published a photograph of the turf next to the manhole cover with the caption,

"Assassin's Bullet - One of the rifle bullets fired by the murderer of President Kennedy lies in the grass across Elm Street from the building in which the killer was hiding and from where he launched his assault."

Harry Cabluck, the news photographer who took the picture, told researcher Jim Marrs that he did not actually see the bullet but was told by someone that a bullet had struck the grass at this spot.

There were other contemporary reports. St. Louis Dispatch journalist Richard Dudman was among the witnesses in Dealey Plaza. His firsthand report states,

"A group of police officers were examining the area at the side of the street where the President was hit, and a police inspector told me they had just found another bullet in the grass."

The FBI also learned of the incident. Witness Jean Lois Hill was interviewed by agents at the Sheriffs headquarters that afternoon. Learning that she had been standing on the Dealey Plaza lawn, they asked her if she had seen a bullet hit the grass (she had not). Another witness, Hugh Betzner, told Dallas agents that he had seen police digging for a bullet in the lawn.

Researcher Jim Marrs located and interviewed two other witnesses mentioned in the FBI report: Wayne and Edna Hartman told the FBI that they had seen the ground mounded up and asked the policemen if it was the work of moles. They were told that bullets had struck the ground. Nor was Foster the only person to see the initial strike. Richard Randolph Carr testified that one shot "knocked a bunch of grass up."

The factor which lends weight to these accounts is that the whole incident was recorded in photographs taken by Black Star photographer, Jim Murray. With the Texas School Book Depository as a backdrop, and the Hertz clock on the roof reading 12:40, patrolman Foster can be seen with other officers hovering over the manhole cover on the south side of Elm Street (Fig. 11.4). In the series of photographs a sandy-haired man with a side-wall hair cut and a dark gray suit is seen bent over and probing the turf with his left hand. He rises with his left hand making a fist--seeming to clutch something--then in the next picture his hand is stuffed deep into his left side pants pocket.

The man in the pictures was later identified by police chief Jesse Curry as an FBI agent. Yet, he has never been officially identified. Prominent in the photographs, wearing a black suit, is Deputy Sheriff Ed "Buddy" Walthers. Just before testifying to the Warren Commission, the Commission's counsel exchanged an internal memorandum containing a statement concerning Walthers and the incident.

"At one time Walthers was quoted as having found a bullet, but he seems to have backed away from this position."

This memorandum suggests that the Commission was in receipt of a report or document quoting Walthers as having found a bullet and/or subsequently retracting. No such reports or documents are now present in the Archives. In subsequent years Walthers' wife Dorothy told researcher Mark Oakes (who told this writer) that her late husband had told her they had indeed found a bullet in the grass. (Hear No Evil, Mary Ferrell Foundation Press, 2010, pp. 400-401)

Nothing but M Griffith nonsense. Making any headway on proving there was a third shot? Looks like you have a lot of spare time to post this nonsense.

[Jack Nessan]

Please cite any evidence of the radio transmission by Foster you claim he made.

Also, here is a snippet from “Reclaiming History” by Vincent Bugliosi, page 3600-3601:


Walther’s Warren Commission testimony and later statements were corroborated by what Dallas patrolman J. W. Foster told the Warren Commission in 1964. Asked, “Did you recover any bullet?” Foster replied, “No, sir. It ricocheted on out” (6 H 252; see also Sneed, No More Silence, pp.212–213). In fact, it was Foster who provided the most lucid account of what happened, in a 1987 interview with interviewer Larry Sneed. “The plaza had been freshly mowed the day before,” Foster said, “thus I noticed this clump of sod that was laying there and was trying to find out what caused that clump of grass to be there. That’s when I found where the bullet had struck the concrete skirt by the manhole cover and knocked that clump of grass up. Buddy Walthers, one of the sheriff’s deputies, came up and talked to me about it, and we discussed the direction from which the bullet had come. It struck the skirt near the manhole cover and then hit this person [a reference to eyewitness James Tague] who had stood by the column over on Commerce Street. He came by and had a cut on his face where the bullet had struck the column. You could see about where the bullet had come from by checking the angle where it scraped across the concrete and the column where it struck the pedestrian. It appeared to have come from the northeast, approximately from the book store area, but we were never able to find the slug . . . I contacted my sergeant, C.F. Williams. He told me to remain there until they got down there and had some pictures taken, which they did.” (Sneed, No More Silence, pp.212–213)


Plus some of the photos clearly show the direction of the bullet’s trajectory.

This whole story is just a continuing fiction on JW Foster’s part.

Buddy Walters never mentioned this story in his testimonies or statements. Tague himself stated he was not cut. Buddy Walters believed the shot came directly from the TSBD and traveled high over the car based on the angel of the mark on top of the curb. No mention at all of a mark on a manhole cover. It if left a mark where is the analysis of the mark or even mention of one.

 It struck the skirt near the manhole cover and then hit this person [a reference to eyewitness James Tague] who had stood by the column over on Commerce Street. He came by and had a cut on his face where the bullet had struck the column. You could see about where the bullet had come from by checking the angle where it scraped across the concrete and the column where it struck the pedestrian. 

Column?

 JW Foster did not even get that right. Tague was all about a curb by his feet, not a column he was standing next to.

Buddy Walters did not think enough of it to even mention it to the WC. Instead, he believed like so many other witnesses the first two shots hit the motorcade and a bullet was some kind of miss that struck the curb by Tague.

 --------

Buddy Walter

Buddy Walters..... I found where a bullet had splattered on the top edge of the curb on Main Street which would place the direction firing high and behind the position the President's car was in when he was shot. Due to the fact that the projectile struck so near the underpass, it was, in my opinion, probably the last shot that was fired and had aparently went high and above the President's car.   

Mr. WALTHERS. That's right--in this lane here and his car was just partially sticking out parked there and he came up to me and asked me, he said, "Are you looking to see where some bullets may have struck?" And I said, "Yes." He says, "I was standing over by the bank here, right there where my car is parked when those shots happened," and he said, "I don't know where they came from, or if they were shots, but something struck me on the face," and he said, "It didn't make any scratch or cut and it just was a sting," and so I had him show me right where he was standing and I started to search in that immediate area and found a place on the curb there in the Main Street lane there close to the underpass where a projectile had struck that curb.

Mr. WALTHERS. Well, at the time I wasn't interested in whether he was cut or what, I just said, "Where were you standing?" In an effort to prove there was some shots fired, and after seeing the way it struck the curb at an angle---which it came down on the curb---it was almost obvious that it either came from this building or this building [indicating] the angle it struck the curb at.

Mr. WALTHERS. Evidently this shot must have went way high over that car--- the last shot, as they were fixing to go to the underpass---it must have been awful high to hit where it did.

There is no mention of Foster or even a strike on a manhole cover by Buddy Walters.