Lovelady in Darnell and it's Ramifications.

[Tom Graves]

Bump regarding previous claim(s).

That dude must have been one of the oodles and gobs of "Joe Blows" the police let into the TSBD right after the assassination as a really, really early promotional gig for The Sixth Floor Museum, huh?

[Zeon Mason]

The way it seems to me is that the 2 men that Baker saw  near the rear elevators, (whom both were white men) , are either Lovelady and Shelley, or they are 2 unknown non TSBD employees.

Since the WC was trying to establish that there was no conspiracy, then surely there should have been more effort to identify those 2 men, right? After all, there were  already Mark Lane CTs questioning everything so it seems odd that the WC would not clear up the matter.

So the fact that there was no effort by those questioning Baker to further elaborate about the 2 men, suggest there was some other reason to avoid the issue.

Therefore I think it is warranted to suggest that the 2 men were Lovelady and Shelly and that the reason the WC did  not establish L/S as the 2 men ( this nullifying any CT ? Immediately) must be because identifying the 2 men would iinterfere with the WC theory of Oswald’s staircase descent from 6th floor to 2nd floor lunchroom.

Dorothy Garners statement was suppressed as a seemingly unimportant memo, and she was never called by the WC as a witness. So all the more reason therefore to suspect that the reluctance of the WC to establish Lovelady and Shelley as the 2 men was to avoid establishing the Adams/Stiles 60 sec post shots sighting of Lovelady and Shelley( an vice versa).

But the problem here,  is getting Lovelady and Shelley to the rear elevators by 60 secs post shots, without them having made some contact with Baker and Truly in the front lobby, or at the bottleneck area of the front desk without  the 2 parties having LOS to each other at around 45-50 secs post shots.

This  is where I question is the route that Lovelady and Shelley took was through the front entrance doors of TSBD just ahead ( by only about 10 secs ) of Baker and Truly doing likewise.

I think its just as probable  that Lovelady and Shelley could have left the steps after both of them saw and heard Calvary, and traveled some  200 ft in about 30 more secs from the point where at about 30 secs post shots they seem to be moving in that “ enhanced” clip from Couch (Gerda D’s ) film.

[Royell Storing]

  So Officer Baker thinks there is an active shooter inside the TSBD and he encounters 2 men near the elevator/1st floor exit and he does not confront them? That is strange. Extremely strange.

[Tom Graves]

So, Officer Baker thinks there is an active shooter inside the TSBD and he encounters two men near the elevator/1st floor exit and he does not confront them? That is strange. Extremely strange.

He thought the shots had come from the roof. If he and Truly entered the front door about 30 seconds after the final shot, he probably figured those two guys (who weren't together and one of whom was sitting) couldn't have been on the roof and gotten down to the first floor so quickly.

[Dan O'meara]

For the longest time I didn't believe it was Lovelady (I thought it might be the elusive Jack Dougherty) because this guy seemed really tall, was wearing what appeared to be a less white shirt over a very white t-shirt and the hairline and head shape didn't seem to match with Lovelady from the Martin film (I think the Martin image is somehow distorted):



However, when I compared the image to a Lovelady mugshot it became clear that this man is, indeed, Lovelady:



I believe the Alyea footage shows Fritz in the foreground standing in the area where the rifle was found. It is just after the discovery of the rifle. Off to one side is Lt. Day dusting the rifle for fingerprints. My guess is that it's taken somewhere between 13:40 and 13:50 PM, shortly before Truly comes up from the first floor to tel  Fritz that Oswald is missing.
It would be good to ID the detective that Fritz is talking to, it might help with a more certain timestamp.

[Zeon Mason]

Actually , it was not until about 70 secs post shots that Baker and Truly   encounter the 2 mystery white men “loitering” around the rear elevators.

So like Storing ? Why did not Truly  ID these men to Baker as TSBD employees?

Imo, if  Truly did not recognize 2 men at the rear elevators as TSBD employees then surely he would have questioned their presence there would he not? 

This points therefore to those 2 men being Lovelady and Shelley and it was at this 70 sec post shots encounter when Truly told Lovelady to guard  the elevators while Truly  and Baker prepared to start ascending the staircases.

But then there is Luke Mooney arriving next,  so Mooney should have encountered Lovelady guarding the elevators should he not ?

And Luke Mooney had an encounter with Victoria Adams at the rear elevator on the 2nd floor which  was stuck because the power was off and he couldn’t operate the elevator. So Mooney starts ascending the stairs and lo and behold he counters 2 plainclothes men coming down the stairs!

Meanwhile, where the heck are Shelley and Lovelady if they were supposed to be guarding the elevators when Mooney gets to the rear elevator on the 2nd floor?

I think the solution must be that Mooney went up to the 2nd floor using the FRONT staircase at the front lobby entrance, thus he did not make  contact with Shelley or Lovelady if they were still guarding the rear elevators on the 1st floor.

I think that Victoria Adams after standing outside in front of TSBD for about 2 minutes decided to go back into TSBD and return to the 4th floor office. Not sure which way she went though, however which ever way, she runs into Mooney on the 2nd floor at the rear elevators.

[Tom Graves]

I think the Martin image is somehow distorted.

The Martin image isn't distorted, Lovelady's face is distorted because he's exhaling cigarette smoke in-a-smoke-circle-creating or a "I wanna see the little puffs leave my mouth" kinda way.

[Royell Storing]

Actually , it was not until about 70 secs post shots that Baker and Truly   encounter the 2 mystery white men “loitering” around the rear elevators.

So like Storing ? Why did not Truly  ID these men to Baker as TSBD employees?

Imo, if  Truly did not recognize 2 men at the rear elevators as TSBD employees then surely he would have questioned their presence there would he not? 

This points therefore to those 2 men being Lovelady and Shelley and it was at this 70 sec post shots encounter when Truly told Lovelady to guard  the elevators while Truly  and Baker prepared to start ascending the staircases.

But then there is Luke Mooney arriving next,  so Mooney should have encountered Lovelady guarding the elevators should he not ?

And Luke Mooney had an encounter with Victoria Adams at the rear elevator on the 2nd floor which  was stuck because the power was off and he couldn’t operate the elevator. So Mooney starts ascending the stairs and lo and behold he counters 2 plainclothes men coming down the stairs!

Meanwhile, where the heck are Shelley and Lovelady if they were supposed to be guarding the elevators when Mooney gets to the rear elevator on the 2nd floor?

I think the solution must be that Mooney went up to the 2nd floor using the FRONT staircase at the front lobby entrance, thus he did not make  contact with Shelley or Lovelady if they were still guarding the rear elevators on the 1st floor.

I think that Victoria Adams after standing outside in front of TSBD for about 2 minutes decided to go back into TSBD and return to the 4th floor office. Not sure which way she went though, however which ever way, she runs into Mooney on the 2nd floor at the rear elevators.

   I can buy into some of the earlier points you make, but there is Nothing ID'ing one of the women that Officer Mooney encountered as being Vicky Adams. You need to be careful about cavalierly applying ID's to people. If it's your opinion please state such. People come here looking for Facts about the JFK Assassination.
   Why would Officer Mooney enter the 1st floor right next to the freight elevators and Not use those same elevators to go up? Why would he walk clear across the 1st floor? Mooney clearly testified that the elevator power went Out AFTER he was going up with the 2 women.