Lovelady in Darnell and it's Ramifications.

[Royell Storing]

Earlier in this thread the old-timer was asked to give a very simple timeline outlining how Shelley and Lovelady could be walking along the Elm St Ext a mere 25 seconds after the shooting.
In these few seconds, according to his shaky grasp of the evidence, Gloria had to get back to the front steps from her position on Elm Street, tell Lovelady about the shooting, Shelley and Lovelady then make their way across the extension to the "little, old island", before making their way along the Elm Street extension to the railroad yard. All that in around 25 seconds.
Rather than acknowledge that this makes a mockery out of his "conclusive" and "definitive" identification of Lovelady in the Darnell/Couch footage, we get this devious manipulation of the testimonial evidence instead.
The old man cherry picks certain passages from their WC testimonies to create a false narrative in which he omits that BOTH men specifically stated they were on the steps for at least 3 minutes before Gloria arrived at the steps and that they spent a minute or so on the island before heading along the Elm St Ext.

Even if it was just a case of Gloria getting to the steps, telling her story, both men going to the island and then heading along the extension where they are filmed by Darnell and Couch...even if it was just these things done as quickly as humanly possible, it is still doubtful the men would be filmed on the extension within 25 seconds.
It simply cannot be done and the old-timer was right to dodge attempting to take on this timeline because his delusional approach to the evidence would have been exposed.

   The Lovelady WC testimony/timeline is difficult to accept simply because Lovelady says so.  Lovelady says he and Shelley went down the Elm St Ext 3+ minutes after the Kill Shot vs the Couch Film still frames showing 2 guys looking like Lovelady and Shelley heading down the Elm St Ext roughly 30 seconds after the Kill Shot. Then, Lovelady gives WC Testimony that after entering the TSBD he stayed inside there for approximately 30 minutes  vs  there being images of Lovelady standing on the (R) side of the TSBD Front Steps. In my opinion, Lovelady's testimony regarding his own timeline is so far off that it impacts the credibility of everything he testified to. 

[Tom Graves]

The Lovelady WC testimony/timeline is difficult to accept simply because Lovelady says so. Lovelady says he and Shelley went down the Elm Street Extension 3+ minutes after the kill shot vs the Couch film still frames showing two guys looking like Lovelady and Shelley heading down the Elm Street Extension roughly 30 seconds after the kill shot. Then, Lovelady gives WC Testimony that after entering the TSBD he stayed inside for approximately 30 minutes vs there being images of him standing on the (R) side of the TSBD front steps. In my opinion, Lovelady's testimony regarding his own timeline is so far off that it impacts the credibility of everything he testified to.

Well put.

[Zeon Mason]

If those 2 guys in the Darnell film  moving away at approx 30 sec post shots , then they have to start heading back to west side of TSBD pretty soon after that to make it to the west door of TSBD and get to the rear elevators by 60 sec post shots.

The distance approx from where they are in the film to the west side door of TSBD is about 200 ft so that’s a pace of about 6-7ft/sec which imo is equivalent to a “brisk” walk. So it’s possible that Lovelady and Shelly could have turned around after seeing the White Helmut Running Cop, and decided they should return to the rear side of TSBD asap.

The only reason I can think of for them to do an about face so quickly is that maybe they thought that because White Helmut Cop (with gun in hand) racing to get into TSBD , was indicative that the shooter was possibly in the TSBD.

So Lovelady and Shelley thought they should assist in this effort and that they might prevent the shooter from escaping out the back of TSBD

[Dan O'meara]

   The Lovelady WC testimony/timeline is difficult to accept simply because Lovelady says so.  Lovelady says he and Shelley went down the Elm St Ext 3+ minutes after the Kill Shot vs the Couch Film still frames showing 2 guys looking like Lovelady and Shelley heading down the Elm St Ext roughly 30 seconds after the Kill Shot. Then, Lovelady gives WC Testimony that after entering the TSBD he stayed inside there for approximately 30 minutes  vs  there being images of Lovelady standing on the (R) side of the TSBD Front Steps. In my opinion, Lovelady's testimony regarding his own timeline is so far off that it impacts the credibility of everything he testified to.

Agreed.
The only statements made by Shelley and Lovelady that I give any credence to are the very first statements they gave about their movements after the assassination.
IMO, the affidavits both men gave to the DPD a couple of hours after the assassination are the only reliable account of what they did in the aftermath of the shooting.
Both men were stood on the steps when the shots were fired, Shelley ran across the street and met Gloria coming the other way and then returned to the building. Lovelady never moved from the steps and simply re-entered the building. No walk along the extension, no visit to where the limo stopped or the railroad yard or anywhere else and no re-entering the building through the west door.
All of the movements and timings they gave, in all their statements after their affidavits, were lies.
What they actually did was to re-enter the building through the front door seconds after the shooting, make their way to the back of the first floor, towards the elevators, where they were seen by Vicki Adams as she raced towards the loading dock door, which would make them the two white men Baker reported seeing as he waited with Truly for the elevator that never came.

[Tom Graves]

The only statements made by Shelley and Lovelady that I give any credence to are the very first statements they gave about their movements after the assassination.

IMO, the affidavits both men gave to the DPD a couple of hours after the assassination are the only reliable account of what they did in the aftermath of the shooting.

Both men were stood on the steps when the shots were fired, Shelley ran across the street and met Gloria coming the other way and then returned to the building. Lovelady never moved from the steps and simply re-entered the building. No walk along the extension, no visit to where the limo stopped or the railroad yard or anywhere else and no re-entering the building through the west door.

All of the movements and timings they gave, in all their statements after their affidavits, were lies.

What they actually did was to re-enter the building through the front door seconds after the shooting, make their way to the back of the first floor, towards the elevators, where they were seen by Vicki Adams as she raced towards the loading dock door, which would make them the two white men Baker reported seeing as he waited with Truly for the elevator that never came.

Dear danny BOY o'meara,

1) Why did they lie?

Because if they'd told the Warren Commission "the truth," their being spotted near the elevators by Adams and Baker so soon after the final shot, when taken in conjunction with the fact that Adams and Styles didn't see or hear Oswald on the stairs, would "prove" that Oswald wasn't on the sixth floor during the shooting?

Shelley said he entered the building and called his wife.

Would Baker, back near the elevators, have been able to see him doing that from there?

Would he have been the guy who was sitting, or the guy who was standing?

2) Did the limo stop?

-- Tom

[Dan O'meara]

Dear danny BOY o'meara,

1) Why did they lie?

Because if they'd told the Warren Commission "the truth," their being spotted near the elevators by Adams and Baker so soon after the final shot, when taken in conjunction with the fact that Adams and Styles didn't see or hear Oswald on the stairs, would "prove" that Oswald wasn't on the sixth floor during the shooting?

Shelley said he entered the building and called his wife.

Would Baker, back near the elevators, have been able to see him doing that from there?

Would he have been the guy who was sitting, or the guy who was standing?

2) Did the limo stop?

-- Tom

1) Why did they lie?

As I've posted over and over and over again - they lied to cover up their movements in the immediate aftermath of the shooting.

2) Did the limo stop?

No.

What evidence do you have for your erroneous belief that Lovelady met Gloria on the little, old island?

[Tom Graves]

Shelley and Lovelady lied to cover up their movements in the immediate aftermath of the shooting.

Fine.

Why did they need to cover up their movements in the immediate aftermath of the shooting?

What evidence do you have for your belief that Lovelady met Gloria on the island?

The fact that Buell Wesley Frazier said he believed that right after the shots, "Billy [Lovelady] and them walked down in the direction of the triple underpass," (i.e., towards the "island") before a girl (Calvery?) came up to the steps and started bellowing to the people there that JFK had been shot, and the fact that Shelley and Lovelady can be seen walking/running towards the railway yard/parking lot about 25 seconds after the final shot in Couch-Darnell.

If Lovelady didn't join "best man" Shelley in his interception of recent-bride Calvery on the "island," but stayed on the steps, instead, Shelley may have signaled to him to go with him to the railway yard/parking lot.

D'oh

What evidence do you have that the person in the Darnell clip who is standing on (or going up) the steps immediately in front of Gloria Calvery is Lovelady, and what evidence do you have that the pivoting guy with the receding hairline in front of the steps in Darnell is slender and "pompadour"-hair-styled William Shelley?

-- Tom

[Royell Storing]

Agreed.
The only statements made by Shelley and Lovelady that I give any credence to are the very first statements they gave about their movements after the assassination.
IMO, the affidavits both men gave to the DPD a couple of hours after the assassination are the only reliable account of what they did in the aftermath of the shooting.
Both men were stood on the steps when the shots were fired, Shelley ran across the street and met Gloria coming the other way and then returned to the building. Lovelady never moved from the steps and simply re-entered the building. No walk along the extension, no visit to where the limo stopped or the railroad yard or anywhere else and no re-entering the building through the west door.
All of the movements and timings they gave, in all their statements after their affidavits, were lies.
What they actually did was to re-enter the building through the front door seconds after the shooting, make their way to the back of the first floor, towards the elevators, where they were seen by Vicki Adams as she raced towards the loading dock door, which would make them the two white men Baker reported seeing as he waited with Truly for the elevator that never came.

     What timelines are you assigning: (1) Officer Baker/Roy Truly arriving at the TSBD 1st floor stairwell, (2) Lovelady/Shelley arriving at the TSBD 1st Floor stairwell, and (3) Adams/Styles arriving at the TSBD 1st Floor?