Lovelady in Darnell and it's Ramifications.

[Dan O'meara]

As I recall from my research (and this is from memory), there is no doubt Calvery encountered Shelley and Lovelady on or near the TSBD steps. Lovelady made clear he wasn't wearing a watch and guessed her arrival was three minutes after the shots. Shelley guessed three minutes after the shots based solely on his estimate of the time that she must have taken to travel from her location along the motorcade route. The time she actually took is whatever the hell she took, which I assume was less than their estimates - but who cares? Both said they first went to the island. Shelley said he saw Truly and Baker at the TSBD entrance but did not see them enter. Lovelady said he looked back when someone shouted and saw them enter. They then fast-walked or trotted down the dead-end part of Elm to the first set of tracks and stayed a short time. One of them, I believe Shelley, said they watched autos being searched in the parking lot for a brief time. They then entered through the open double wooden doors on the west side at the Houston Street dock. Shelley, as I recall, saw a Black guy (perhaps Piper?). Lovelady said several people had reentered the first floor and he saw Shelley either talking to a woman or a woman standing near him, whom he thought could be Adams but he wasn't sure. This would suggest Shelley and Adams were talking about two slightly different time periods - but who cares? Both said some distinctly "unhelpful" things, including thinking the shots had come from the west (Lovelady actually saying the knoll). Wouldn't their three-minute estimates also be grossly at odds with the official story of the lunchroom encounter? Do you seriously believe the WC lawyers browbeat Shelley and Lovelady into telling absolute whoppers just to discredit Adams - and, if so, how do you explain Styles completely discrediting Adams for no apparent reason (other than the truth) long after the fact? I fail to see how any of this adds up to any big deal.

Just to try to drag the old man's nonsense into some kind of reality.
The image he believes conclusively shows Lovelady (and which cannot be questioned) was taken about 25 - 30 seconds after the head shot.
In this few seconds the old-timer has Gloria making her way back to the front steps from her position down Elm Street.
Telling Lovelady, and anyone listening, about the shooting of the President.
Lovelady and Shelley make their way across the Elm St Ext to the "little. old island" where they stay for a while and then make their way down the Elm St Ext where they are captured on film by Darnell and Couch.
It simply can't happen.

Let's ignore that BOTH men stated they were on the steps for at least 3 minutes before Gloria arrived at the steps.
Let's ignore that Shelley stated he met Gloria at the island in his affidavit but then insisted he stayed on the steps before Gloria arrived in his WC testimony.
Let's ignore that Shelley states he turned and saw Baker about to enter the steps when he was on the island even though the two men in Darnell/Couch are already on the extension as Baker races across from his bike.
Let's ignore that Shelley told Patricia and George Nash that Truly and Baker didn't enter the TSBD building for 5 or 6 minutes!
Let's ignore that, before re-entering the TSBD, in his affidavit Lovelady doesn't even move from the steps, in his FBI statements he raced to the area where the limo stopped on Elm Street, in his WC testimony he made his way to the railroad yard and in his HSCA interview he didn't even re-enter the building for 20 minutes!

Let's just ignore all this massively contradictory evidence you are either unfamiliar with or don't know how to process and just explain to us how Gloria gets to the steps, tells her story, Shelley and Lovelady go out to the island and are then filmed walking along the extension IN 25 TO 30 SECONDS

Try to be rational.
Try to apply common sense.
And, at all times, ask yourself "who the is man that Gloria is interacting with in Darnell"?

[Dan O'meara]

What I called "photos" is in fact a series of stills that Bart isolated from the Couch film. Is this an issue, something I need to "take back"? You are quite right that I have no idea what has transpired on this thread or how it has reached 25 pages because it involves what I regard as a non-issue and several participants I regard as some of the biggest loons on this forum. I have no idea what your Joan Rivers reference is supposed to mean. I simply said that if you or anyone else doubts that is Shelley and Lovelady, you (or they, as the case may be) are demonstrably wrong.

What I called "photos" is in fact a series of stills that Bart isolated from the Couch film

No, it isn't.

[Royell Storing]

As I recall from my research (and this is from memory), there is no doubt Calvery encountered Shelley and Lovelady on or near the TSBD steps. Lovelady made clear he wasn't wearing a watch and guessed her arrival was three minutes after the shots. Shelley guessed three minutes after the shots based solely on his estimate of the time that she must have taken to travel from her location along the motorcade route. The time she actually took is whatever the hell she took, which I assume was less than their estimates - but who cares? Both said they first went to the island. Shelley said he saw Truly and Baker at the TSBD entrance but did not see them enter. Lovelady said he looked back when someone shouted and saw them enter. They then fast-walked or trotted down the dead-end part of Elm to the first set of tracks and stayed a short time. One of them, I believe Shelley, said they watched autos being searched in the parking lot for a brief time. They then entered through the open double wooden doors on the west side at the Houston Street dock. Shelley, as I recall, saw a Black guy (perhaps Piper?). Lovelady said several people had reentered the first floor and he saw Shelley either talking to a woman or a woman standing near him, whom he thought could be Adams but he wasn't sure. This would suggest Shelley and Adams were talking about two slightly different time periods - but who cares? Both said some distinctly "unhelpful" things, including thinking the shots had come from the west (Lovelady actually saying the knoll). Wouldn't their three-minute estimates also be grossly at odds with the official story of the lunchroom encounter? Do you seriously believe the WC lawyers browbeat Shelley and Lovelady into telling absolute whoppers just to discredit Adams - and, if so, how do you explain Styles completely discrediting Adams for no apparent reason (other than the truth) long after the fact? I fail to see how any of this adds up to any big deal.

    Wrong! You're making the same mistake the WC Attorney made. Lovelady made it clear to the WC attorney that he was NOT talking about entering the Houston St dock. He made it clear that there were 2 docks and that he and Shelley entered the dock at the end of the Elm St Ext. Which is very close to the 1st set of railroad tracks that he and Shelley stopped at. This dock makes for a very quick entrance into the TSBD. Also, we can see Officer Baker running toward the TSBD as those 2 guys move down the Elm Ext on the Couch Film. This further discredits the Lovelady/Shelley 3+ minutes timeline. That, or the current timeline of the Couch Film is incorrect, and the Darnell Film timeline would also be incorrect. 

[Tom Graves]

At considerable risk to my sanity, I skimmed the last 10 pages of this thread. I must now congratulate myself on my wisdom in previously ignoring it. I did note, however, that Tim made pretty much every point that had occurred to me, including (1) not thinking the guy labeled in red as Shelley is Shelley at all, and (2) not quite understanding what the hell this thread is all about. I did see a couple of references to the Huge Gates, and that's always good for a giggle.

Danny O'meara seems to think Bill Shelley had an Ochus V. Campbell-like receding hairline.

https://media.invisioncic.com/r16296/monthly_2017_02/Darnellstabilized2.gif.24644887b631910787b2f94850be49e5.gif

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/192066941/ochus-virgil-campbell

[Dan O'meara]

Danny O'meara seems to think Bill Shelley had an Ochus V. Campbell-like receding hairline.

https://media.invisioncic.com/r16296/monthly_2017_02/Darnellstabilized2.gif.24644887b631910787b2f94850be49e5.gif

Look at you, like teacher's pet.
Show some backbone, man.
And he treats you like such an idiot. 

[Tom Graves]

Look at you, like teacher's pet.
Show some backbone, man.
And he treats you like such an idiot. 

Dear danny BOY o'meara,

You forgot to include the article about Ochus V. Campbell (your "Shelley") which shows his very un-Shelley-like receding hairline.

Here it is, again, for you.

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/192066941/ochus-virgil-campbell

-- Tom

[Dan O'meara]

Dear danny BOY o'meara,

You forgot to include the article about Ochus V. Campbell (your "Shelley") which shows his very un-Shelley-like receding hairline.

Here it is, again, for you.

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/192066941/ochus-virgil-campbell

-- Tom

Lil' thomas,

The last count is around 20 trolling posts in this thread alone that you've made about your preciousss Campbell identification.
I could let you go on longer but it's time to put you out of your misery...slowly.
Ochus, Ochus, Ochus...this is what you've been reduced to.
Remember when you used to be an actual researcher who would actually research things?

Have noticed something about the man you think is Campbell in Weigman that is different from the findagrave image?

[Lance Payette]

What I called "photos" is in fact a series of stills that Bart isolated from the Couch film

No, it isn't.

Actually, it's not. It's Gerda Dunckel. but it is definitive. Other than that, I decline to be sucked into this, er, "discussion."