Lovelady in Darnell and it's Ramifications.

[Royell Storing]

  If you believe that is Lovelady and Shelley moving down the Elm St Ext on the Couch Film, then you seriously have to question everything in the Lovelady and Shelley WC Testimonies. That, or the assigned Couch Film timeline is wrong. 

[Tim Nickerson]

So, it's just something you accept because you believe it's "widely accepted"
You're unaware of how the testimonial evidence relates to the identification?

How does testimonial evidence affect what we can see with our own eyes?

I'm not sure repeating the phrase makes it real.
It seems like something you've just made up.
Is the photo you accept as showing Lovelady on Elm "overly enhanced"?

I do not believe that Gerda over-enhanced the clip of the Couch film.

Yeah, Tim, the post you were supposed to be responding to had nothing to do with Vicki changing the detail about Shelley and Lovelady to Barry Ernest.
It was about accepting the fact that she was telling the truth when she originally testified and the RAMIFICATIONS of taking her WC testimony at face value.

You essentially said that Vicki lied. If you're going to claim the Lovelady and Shelley lied, then you have to own your claim about Vicki.

I don't believe that Lovelady and Shelley lied. Just as I don't believe that Benavides lied when he said that he stayed in his truck for several minutes after the Tippit shooting. Just as I don't believe that many other witnesses lied about timespans and other things that they got wrong or remembered wrong.

[Royell Storing]

How does testimonial evidence affect what we can see with our own eyes?

I do not believe that Gerda over-enhanced the clip of the Couch film.

You essentially said that Vicki lied. If you're going to claim the Lovelady and Shelley lied, then you have to own your claim about Vicki.

I don't believe that Lovelady and Shelley lied. Just as I don't believe that Benavides lied when he said that he stayed in his truck for several minutes after the Tippit shooting. Just as I don't believe that many other witnesses lied about timespans and other things that they got wrong or remembered wrong.

  So are you saying that Lovelady and Shelley were simply mistaken about waiting 3+ minutes BEFORE going down the Elm St Ext? This Couch Film snippet showing them going down the Elm St Ext is supposed to be roughly 30 seconds after the Kill Shot. I know some people are not very good at measuring the passage of time, but there is a huge difference between 30 Seconds and 3+ Minutes.

[Tom Graves]

Little thomas, you are so sad it's unreal.

Widdle danny BOY o'meara,

Are you afraid to click on the links?

https://media.invisioncic.com/r16296/monthly_2017_02/Darnellstabilized2.gif.24644887b631910787b2f94850be49e5.gif

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/192066941/ochus-virgil-campbell

Poor widdle boy.

-- Tom

[Tom Graves]

If you believe that is Lovelady and Shelley moving down the Elm St Ext on the Couch Film, then you seriously have to question everything in the Lovelady and Shelley WC Testimonies. That, or the assigned Couch Film timeline is wrong.

Dear Royell,

Don't you want them approaching your HUGE GATES?

-- Tom

[Dan O'meara]

How does testimonial evidence affect what we can see with our own eyes?

The above image is taken from the Dunkel footage you posted.
It is impossible to make a positive identification of anyone from this clip.
I find it amazing that you believe you can make such an identification and are so sure about it.
The testimonial evidence must be used to determine whether this identification is correct as it cannot be made "with our own eyes".
In this case, the testimonial evidence flatly refutes such an identification.
The image, taken around 25 seconds after the shooting, is way too soon for any scenario that involves Shelley and Lovelady walking along the Elm St Ext. at this point.
However, there's not much point getting into it as you are clearly unfamiliar with the evidence relating to this and have just blundered into this thread with some kind of ill-informed, preconceived ideas.

I do not believe that Gerda over-enhanced the clip of the Couch film.

Neither do I.
Look at the image above and tell me you can see anything positive about your identification.
Doubtless you will simply carry on saying you can positively identify both men. 
It must be noted that the two men walking along the extension in the Dunkel clip are not walking together. The 'Lovelady' figure starts off behind the 'Shelley' figure but is walking a lot quicker. He passes by 'Shelley' and accelerates away. By the end of the clip the two men are nowhere near each other.

You essentially said that Vicki lied. If you're going to claim the Lovelady and Shelley lied, then you have to own your claim about Vicki.

I don't believe that Lovelady and Shelley lied. Just as I don't believe that Benavides lied when he said that he stayed in his truck for several minutes after the Tippit shooting. Just as I don't believe that many other witnesses lied about timespans and other things that they got wrong or remembered wrong.

There are two contradictory versions of Adams' account of seeing Shelley and Lovelady on the first floor.
In her statement to the DPD, her WC testimony and the lost interview, she is insistent she saw Shelley and Lovelady.
Decades later she changes this detail, it would seem due to a constant campaign of threats to her life.
Rather than engage with the ramifications of Vicki seeing Shelley and Lovelady on the first floor around 60 seconds after the assassination, you childishly keep hiding behind the fact she changed this detail when talking to Ernest.
Like most Nutters, you seem to be unaware that the forum is a written record.
Everyone can see how childish you're being and your silly attempts at avoiding the debate.
It's clear you have no intention of discussing this issue and will keep on trotting out your ill-informed, unsupported nonsense.

[Dan O'meara]

Here's your last chance to actually have a genuine discussion about this issue.
Rather than hiding behind the fact that Ernest reports Vicki changed this single aspect of her account, engage with the debate.
Let's hear your counter-arguments, let's hear how you have reached your own conclusions.
Don't just childishly evade.

Ironically, all this is your fault.
You posted Vicki Adams' lost interview.
In it we hear Vicki, in her own words, confirming she saw Lovelady and Shelley. More importantly, she confirms that she made some trivial corrections to the transcript of her WC testimony. One of these typos is on the same page as the claim she made about seeing Shelley and Lovelady on the first floor meaning that she was aware of this claim in her WC testimony and didn't have a problem with it.
Up to that point I had accepted the claim that the evil, evil WC Sham had inserted the Shelley/Lovelady claim into her testimony.
The lost interview proved this was not the case.
So, I did something not many researchers had thought to do - I took Vicki's testimony at face value and accepted that she did, indeed, race downstairs within seconds of the shots being fired and interacted with Shelley and Lovelady on the first floor of the TSBD building approximately 60 seconds after the shooting.

This had a few ramifications of its own:

1] The Tom Dillard pic, taken between 10 - 15 seconds after the shots and showing an empty window where Vicki and her colleagues were supposed to be, now made sense. Vicki and Sandra had raced off as the limo reached the underpass, followed closely by Dorothy Garner.

2] The Stroud document now made sense. Vicki and Sandra had raced down and out of the building before Truly and Baker reached the area near the elevators. That's the only way Vicki/Sandra could have made it down the back stairs before Truly/Baker ascended the same stairs, without either party being aware of the other.

3] The two white men in the area near the first floor elevators reported by Baker could now be identified as Shelley and Lovelady.

4] Shelley and Lovelady lied about their movements in the immediate aftermath of the shooting. Rather than Shelley/Lovelady discrediting Vicki's account, it's the other way round.



After the shots Shelley ran across the Elm St Ext and bumped into an hysterical Gloria coming the other way, "hollering" about the President being shot. After telling officer Joe Smith about the shooting, Gloria (accompanied by Karan Hicks) made her way to the front steps where she told Lovelady and others about the shooting. Shelley followed behind as he returned to the steps. The Darnell footage shows the moment Gloria has just arrived at the steps and is telling Lovelady about the shooting. Shelley is walking with his back to the camera, returning from across the street, and turns to his left as he reaches the bottom of the steps in time to see Baker rushing towards him.
If there was further footage taken of this area we would see Baker, followed by Lovelady and Shelley, ascend the front steps and enter the building. Truly would be close behind.
Shelley and Lovelady made their way immediately toward the back of the first floor where Vicki called out to them as she rushed to the loading dock door. Seconds later Truly and Baker, who had been talking in the lobby, arrived in the same area.

Identifying Lovelady in Darnell is part of the proof that he and Shelley lied about their movements after the assassination.
In their WC testimonies both men testified that they were on the steps when Gloria came running up.
That it was at least 3 minutes before Gloria arrived.
That after leaving the steps they turned and saw Baker and Truly about to enter the building at least 3 minutes after the assassination.
The Darnell footage demonstrates, beyond any doubt, that these are all falsehoods. This is confirmed by the Truly/Baker time trials.
It is also confirmed by the account of Vicki Adams, who saw these men near the elevators on the first floor, approximately 60 seconds after the assassination.

[Royell Storing]

  You gotta remember these images are from 1963. Men/Boys did Not walk closely alongside each other or even sit closely together on the bench seat of an auto. So, 1 guy walking ahead of the other on the Dunkel images does Not mean they do not know each other or are not walking down the Elm St Ext together. Yeah, the images are not Proof this is Shelley/Lovelady, but their attire does fit along with their size disparity. There are plenty of men wearing suits, but Lovelady's shirt "color clash" is tough to find anywhere else inside Dealey Plaza. The Joan Rivers "Fashion Police" would have been all over that thing.