Lovelady in Darnell and it's Ramifications.

[Royell Storing]

Dear Comrade Storing,

Why don't you watch the clip?

If you do, you'll see his face.

Why would he be ascending the steps at that point in time if he didn't work in the TSBD?

You've seen the black-and-white photos showing Bonnie Ray Williams, Danny Arce and Willaim Shelley being escorted to a car by a policeman I mean a cop, haven't you?

Go look at those photos, again, and notice this time the clothes he was wearing that day.

D'oh!

-- Tom

   Your timeline is Wrong. Try researching the images. "Pictures Of The Pain" is regarded as the Bible in this area. That evidence source makes you look bad. Do the work.

[Tom Graves]

Your timeline is Wrong. Try researching the images. "Pictures Of The Pain" is regarded as the Bible in this area. That evidence source makes you look bad. Do the work.

Dear Comrade Storing,

Bonnie Ray Williams, under oath, told the Warren Commission that he came down to the first floor about fifteen minutes after the assassination, and that he didn't go outside because "they weren't letting people out of the building."

He says that he and some others were taken to "the courthouse, I think" (Mr. Ball said it was the Police Department) to "fill out some affidavits and other things."

In some black-and-white photos, we can see Bonnie Ray Williams, Danny Arce, and William Shelley being escorted by a policeman I mean by a cop to a car parked on Elm Street so that they can be taken to "the courthouse, I think" (i.e., the Police Department at 106 South Harwood Street, about twelve blocks from Dealey Plaza).

Note that Williams was wearing light-colored pants and a dark-colored long-sleeved shirt that day.

D'oh!

-- Tom

[Dan O'meara]

Dear danny BOY o'meara,

The guy walking up the steps wearing light-colored pants and the brown shirt is Bonnie Ray Williams. He testified to the Warren Commission that he came down from the fifth floor about 15 minutes after the assassination, and that he and some others were then taken by car to the courthouse to write up affidavits. Therefore, it would seem that the above scene (with Lovelady smoking a cigarette on the steps) was filmed by Robert Hughes significantly more than 30 minutes after the assassination.
 
-- Tom

Just to put this in some kind of context.
You've taken a picture I posted ONE MONTH AGO and have felt the need to make this point about it representing the moment Bonnie Ray Williams was taken to the courthouse.
This is from a post 106 REPLIES AGO.
This is the only detail you feel comfortable criticizing?
You've trawled through the thread and this is the only point you can make?
I suppose it's a testimony to how solid the arguments are that I've put forward in this thread.

Now...as for the point you are making...
You're wrong.
You've stuck your head above the parapet over this minute detail and you're wrong.
The image from the Hughes film is showing the moment Bonnie Ray, Junior Jarman and Hank Norman run outside after reaching the first floor and are pointed out by Brennan as being the guys he saw on the fifth floor. They are then called back inside the building.



This image is taken approximately 10 - 15 minutes after the shooting.
In the image showing Williams, Arce and Shelley being taken to the police car the area around the front steps has been completely cleared and is from later on that day.

[Tom Graves]

The image from the Hughes film is showing the moment Bonnie Ray, Junior Jarman and Hank Norman run outside after reaching the first floor and are pointed out by Brennan as being the guys he saw on the fifth floor. They are then called back inside the building.



This image is taken approximately 10 - 15 minutes after the shooting.
In the image showing Williams, Arce and Shelley being taken to the police car the area around the front steps has been completely cleared and is from later on that day.

Dear danny BOY o'meara,

Okay.

And this proves what?

That Shelley and Lovelady were inside the TSBD from the time that the former, having just spoken with Gloria Calvery on or near the "island," went inside to call his wife, and Lovelady tagged along with him and stayed inside until he just couldn't stand it anymore and had to sneak outside to get a nicotine "fix" on the steps?

-- Tom

[Dan O'meara]

Dear danny BOY o'meara,

Okay.

And this proves what?

That Shelley and Lovelady were inside the TSBD from the time that the former, having just spoken with Gloria Calvery on or near the "island," went inside to call his wife, and Lovelady tagged along with him and stayed inside until he just couldn't stand it anymore and had to sneak outside to get a nicotine "fix" on the steps?

-- Comrade Pinko Jerkov

And this proves what?

All it proves is that you don't really understand what's going on, Pinko.
You're like so many JFKA researchers, running around the hills chasing the CIA, the KGB, the mafia etc., but you don't really know what's happening on the ground. You're unaware of the importance of some basic facts because you've already raced ahead to your conclusion. It's why you have to fabricate certain scenarios.

That Shelley and Lovelady were inside the TSBD from the time that the former, having just spoken with Gloria Calvery on or near the "island," went inside to call his wife, and Lovelady tagged along with him and stayed inside until he just couldn't stand it anymore and had to sneak outside to get a nicotine "fix" on the steps?


Shelley and Lovelady were making their way towards the back of the first floor within 60 seconds of the shooting and were seen there by Vicki Adams as she and Sandra Styles raced towards the loading dock door. They were also seen there, seconds later, by Baker when he arrived at the area near the elevators.
After a few false starts, Shelley and Lovelady finally settle on the lie that, after the shooting, they waited for 3 minutes on the steps, moved across to the "little, old island", made there way along the Elm Street Ext., hung around the railroad yards and re-entered the building through the west door. The only reason to tell these lies is to cover up their real movements. The only reason to cover up their real movements is because they are trying to hide whatever they were really up to.
The question is - what were they up to?
What were they covering up?
What is there, towards the back of the first floor, that could be so important?
And how did they get away with telling these ridiculously obvious lies to the Warren Commission Sham?

[Tom Graves]

And this proves what?

That Shelley and Lovelady were inside the TSBD from the time that the former, having just spoken with Gloria Calvery on or near the "island," went inside to call his wife, and Lovelady tagged along with him and stayed inside until he just couldn't stand it anymore and had to sneak outside to get a nicotine "fix" on the steps?


Shelley and Lovelady were making their way towards the back of the first floor within 60 seconds of the shooting and were seen there by Vicki Adams as she and Sandra Styles raced towards the loading dock door. They were also seen there, seconds later, by Baker when he arrived at the area near the elevators.

After a few false starts, Shelley and Lovelady finally settle on the lie that, after the shooting, they waited for 3 minutes on the steps, moved across to the "little, old island", made there [sic] way along the Elm Street Ext., hung around the railroad yards and re-entered the building through the west door. The only reason to tell these lies is to cover up their real movements. The only reason to cover up their real movements is because they are trying to hide whatever they were really up to.

The question is - what were they up to?

What were they covering up?

What is there, towards the back of the first floor, that could be so important?

And how did they get away with telling these ridiculously obvious lies to the Warren Commission Sham?

Dear danny BOY o'meara,

Does your scenario somehow preclude Baker's, Truly's and Oswald's being in the 2nd-floor lunchroom "vestibule" while Adams and Styles were quickly traversing a corner of the second floor from one stairwell to another?

Spell it out for me.

-- Tom

[Dan O'meara]

Dear danny BOY o'meara,

Does your scenario somehow preclude Baker's, Truly's and Oswald's being in the 2nd-floor lunchroom "vestibule" while Adams and Styles were quickly traversing a corner of the second floor from one stairwell to another?

Spell it out for me.

-- Comrade Pinko Jerkov

I'm not sure if it does preclude it, Pinko.
This is the way I look at it -
Adams is consistent that she set off within seconds of the shooting. She specifically states that she had decided to race downstairs before the limo had even reached the underpass.
This would have her in motion within 10 seconds of the shooting.
For me, this is confirmed by the Dillard photo which shows the fourth floor open window which Adams, Styles and Dorman were positioned in front of during the motorcade. The Dillard pic is taken around 10 - 15 seconds after the shooting and shows an empty window, which is what we would expect if Adams and Styles had already taken off.
So, I reckon they were at the head of the stairs on the fourth floor no later than 20 seconds after the shooting and they ran all the way to the first floor.

Now let's think about the shooter.
Let's imagine it is Oswald and that he makes his way downstairs after the shooting (not that there is a shred of evidence that this actually happened).
According to Brennan, in "Eyewitness To History", the shooter was still at the SN window after the limo had reached the underpass. This delay receives support from Hank Norman, a few feet below the shooter, who heard the shells hitting the floor but didn't hear the sound of heavy Oxford work shoes on the wooden floor just above his head. Because the shooter was just stood there, not moving.
In this scenario, it would be impossible for Oswald to reach the second floor lunchroom before Adams and Styles passed by.
Even if the shooter left his position the instant he finished shooting, and was running, he still wouldn't have made it to the second floor before Adams.

Also, Dorothy Garner's statements make it clear Adams descended the back stairs a couple of minutes BEFORE Baker and Truly came up the same stairs. This means Oswald would have to make it down the stairs BEFORE Adams reached them and I just can't see a scenario where that happens without ignoring lots of witness evidence and physical evidence such as the Dillard pic.

That said, I've no doubt some really unlikely yet not impossible scenario can be created to make it so Truly and Baker didn't hear the two women clattering along a wooden floor in 3 inch high heels a few feet away.
If anyone can do it, you can Comrade.