Lovelady in Darnell and it's Ramifications.

[Lance Payette]

Last one.

This is nothing more than a point of curiosity for a very bored, housebound me. Yes, if I dive into an issue I do approach it like an appellate lawyer, not a jump-to-my-preferred-conclusion, agenda-driven, spittle-spewing fanatic like Some People I Could Mention.

Tom may well be correct in his identification. I'm not convinced, but he may be. He seems driven by an agenda to make Shelley and Lovelady into liars and the FBI and WC into evidence-fabricating fiends, which I find improbable. If Tartan Skirted Woman can be established as Calvery without all of the supposed (and, I believe, insane) "ramifications" - well, that's fine with me.

Westbrook's 50-year-old recollections are not about some obscure detail. They are about where she was standing, who she was with, and what SHE HERSELF looked like. She is looking at photos, front and back, and saying "That's me."

The person she thinks is her just happens to be standing in the photos with someone who looks a great deal like Calvery - who is precisely whom she recalls standing with her.

She is adamant about all this. She was honest enough to say she wasn't sure who the dark-haired woman next to Calvery is. In those circumstances, I'm not prepared to say she is wrong and Tom is right. If she is wrong, she's very, astoundingly wrong.

She's alive. Did anyone ever show her Duncan's clip? Maybe she'd say, "I'm not sure who those three are, but that's still me in the blue scarf with Gloria in the other photos." Or maybe she'd say, "Yeah, that's us. The dark woman is ______." Or maybe she'd still say, "I don't know who the dark woman is."

I have no idea what point Dan is making. I think Shelley was on the TSBD landing, where he said he was, then quickly left and headed down the Elm extension with Lovelady. I think he either left the steps and crossed the street before encountering Calvery, as he said the day of the JFKA, or left in response to seeing and hearing her as he suggested at the WC. If there is some great contradiction here, I guess I don't see it. The point of his affidavit was what he saw and heard at the time of the assassination, not a detailed itinerary of all his subsequent movements.

If Dan is still in fakery mode, suggesting that isn't Shelley and Lovelady in Couch, he's a lost cause even for a CTer.

Dan is clearly not familiar with the totality of Andrej Stancak's work, which is extensive and impressive even if he is a Prayer Man enthusiast. (Never mind, of course, that this is precisely where Shelley testified he was standing. Never mind, either, that numerous people have pointed out for years that Dan's "Shelley" simply doesn't have Shelley's build.) I don't know where Dan got the photo he has labelled Shelley and attributed to Andrej, but Shelley's suit and tie seem reasonably clear in Andrej's April 10, 2023 piece "The timing of Wiegman film and Altgens6 photograph questions the continuity of frames in Zapruder film," https://thejfktruthmatters.wordpress.com/2023/04/10/the-timing-of-wiegman-film-and-altgens6-photograph-questions-the-continuity-of-frames-in-zapruder-film/.

Yes, I have seen all the photos that Westbrook herself donated to the Sixth Floor Museum. I mentioned them above. Yes, I would say the dark woman in the trio is not Hicks or Reed. I don't see that this settles anything. Send the clip or photo to Westbrook - her address is public - and see what she says.

Well, it's been fun. Despite its amusement value, whatever issues are being hashed out here are truly not that big of a deal to me because I believe the entire underlying premise of LYING! FABRICATING! and INTIMIDATING!, all to DEFEAT OSWALD'S IRONCLAD ALIBI!, is simply insane.

Dang me, I need to paste inside my hat the old aphorism about wrestling with a pig ...

Carry on, oinkers.

[Tom Graves]

Tom seems driven by an agenda to make Shelley and Lovelady into liars and the FBI and WC into evidence-fabricating fiends.

Dear Fancy Prancer Rants,

"Last one"?

If so, is that the best chicken you-know-what "Parthian Shot" you can come up with?

Contrary to your asinine insinuation, the reason I started this "journey" wasn't to prove that Shelley and Lovelady had lied or that the FBI and the Warren Commission were implicated in "the coverup," but simply to determine whether or not then-controversial Gloria Calvery had been correctly identified, by "experts" Robin Unger and Don Roberdeau, as the black-haired / dark-complected (see Z-60 and the black-and-white Darnell clip showing the three gals walking back to the TSBS) gal standing "by" the Stemmons Freeway sign in Zapruder (with, strangely, only two of her three South-West Publishing Company colleagues), and if not, if it was possible to determine 1) where she was standing during the motorcade, 2) whether she was close enough to the TSBD steps to be able to get to them within 35 seconds (iirc) of the final shot, 3) be visible in Couch-Darnell, and 4) therefore possibly serve as a photographic clue as to who was telling the truth (and who wasn't) regarding what they had witnessed and what they had done immediately after the assassination.

When I proved that Calvary wasn't the black-haired / dark-complected (see Z-60) gal "near" the Stemmons Freeway sign in Zapruder, Sandy Larsen and I were able to locate her (and her dressed-all-in-white colleague) standing about ten feet closer to the TSBD than Robin Unger's and Karen Westbrook's Calvarys (plural).

Then Sandy located Calvery and her dressed-all-in-white colleague standing on (or going up) the steps in Darnell.

Since Mark Tyler's highly-acclaimed-by-you synchronized animation of the motorcade have Couch and Darnell filming the TSBD steps (and Officer Baker running towards them) about 25 seconds after the final shot, the fact that a "Shelley" and "Lovelady" figure can be seen walking/running down Elm Street Extension toward the railway yard/parking lot in Couch-Darnell suggests that they didn't wait until Calvery ran up to the steps and bellowed that JFK had been shot, but that "best man" Shelley, with or without his sidekick Lovelady, intercepted her at the "island" across the street from the steps and that it was from this point that Shelley and Lovelady commenced their jaunt to the railway yard/parking lot.

-- Tom

PS Tall, thin Westbrook didn't correctly identify herself in the Zapruder frame fifty-four years after the event because, in it, she was wearing a dark-blue dress and a light-blue headscarf (which looks "off white" in Zapruder) and standing farthest-from-the-camera of the four South-West Publishing Company colleagues, bending in, photographically speaking, with the almost invisible person in front of her and the people surrounding her on both sides.

[Royell Storing]

It's the Hughes film.
The image I posted in my last Reply is from that.
I believe part of it shows either Hank Norman or Junior Jarman being ushered back into the building. After coming down from the 5th floor, they ran outside but were stopped, briefly grilled by an officer then told to get back inside. It must be about 10 to 15 minutes after the assassination.

   Per Trask's "Pictures Of The Pain", your 10-15 minute estimate of your posted Hughes Film Footage showing the front of the TSBD would seem to be accurate. Walk me through what you believe Lovelady did after the Kill Shot. Obviously, Lovelady could Not have been inside the TSBD for 30 minutes following the Kill Shot and be in this Hughes film footage 15 minutes after the Kill Shot too. What did Lovelady do? Where did Lovelady go during the 30 minutes following the Kill Shot? 

[Tom Graves]

Per Trask's "Pictures of the Pain," your 10-15 minute estimate of your posted Hughes film footage showing the front of the TSBD would seem to be accurate. Walk me through what you believe Lovelady did after the kill shot. Obviously, Lovelady could not have been inside the TSBD for 30 minutes following the kill shot and be in this Hughes footage 15 minutes after the kill shot, too. What did Lovelady do? Where did Lovelady go during the 30 minutes following the kill shot?

I've often suspected that the guy in the Alyea film who's standing in the background and who turns his head towards the window and back is Lovelady, standing on a pallet or something.

[Royell Storing]

I've often suspected that the guy in the Alyea film who's standing in the background and who turns his head towards the window and back is Lovelady, standing on a pallet or something.

     Lovelady testified that he was inside the TSBD for 30 minutes shortly after the Kill Shot. Lovelady is clearly on the Hughes Film outside of the TSBD 15-20 minutes after the Kill Shot. He can not be in both places at the same time. Though interesting, the above snippet does Not answer this question. Plus, I believe that guy is wearing a Sweat Shirt over a T-Shirt. 

[Tom Graves]

Lovelady testified that he was inside the TSBD for 30 minutes shortly after the kill shot. Lovelady is clearly on the Hughes film outside of the TSBD 15-20 minutes after the kill shot. He cannot be in both places at the same time. Though interesting, the above snippet does not answer this question. Plus, I believe that guy is wearing a sweatshirt over a T-Shirt.

There must have been two Loveladys, then, huh?

Wait! Maybe it was just a "Joe Blow" who wandered in from the street!!!

Afterall, the police were probably letting oodles and gobs of "Joe Blows" into the TSBD at that time!!!

[Royell Storing]

There must have been two Loveladys, then, huh?

Wait! Maybe it was just a "Joe Blow" who wandered in from the street!!!

    So you agree that the man in the snippet you posted is wearing a Sweat Shirt over a T-Shirt. That's good, but it does not answer the question of how Lovelady can be in that Hughes snippet 15-20 minutes after the Kill Shot vs his claiming to be inside the TSBD for 30 minutes shortly after the Kill Shot. The closer you look at the WC Testimony of Lovelady vs the JFK Assassination Images, the more his testimony continues falling apart.

[Tom Graves]

So, you agree that the man in the snippet you posted is wearing a sweatshirt over a t-shirt.

Did I agree to that?