JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate > JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate
Arlen Specter's SBT Notebook
Tim Nickerson:
--- Quote from: Lance Payette on September 14, 2025, 03:48:07 PM ---Yes, I think Orr's theory is well worth reading even if one concludes he's dead wrong. He certainly put extensive work into it, and he is the one who commissioned the Knott Lab study even though he now distances himself from it. As I recall, one key point is that JBC's doctors seemed to think the wrist wounds had been caused by a sharp or jagged missile, which doesn't sound like CE 399.
--- End quote ---
DR. GREGORY - The only way that this missile could have produced this wound in my view, was to have entered the wrist backward. Now, this is not inconsistent with one of the characteristics known for missiles which is to tumble. All missiles in flight have two motions normally, a linear motion from the muzzle of the gun to the target, a second motion which is a spinning motion having to do with maintaining the integrity of the intial linear direction, but if they strike an object they may be caused to turn in their path and tumble end over, and if they do, they tend to produce a greater amount of destruction within the strike time or the target, and they could possibly, if tumbling in air upon emergence, tumble into another target backward. That is the only possible explanation I could offer to correlate this missile with this particular wound.
Mr. SPECTER - Is them sufficient metallic substance missing from the back or rear end of that bullet to account for the metallic substance which you have described in the Governor's wrist?
Dr. GREGORY - It is possible but I don't know enough about the structure of bullets or this one in particular, to know what is a normal complement of lead or for this particular missile. It is irregular, but how much it may have lost, g have no idea.
Mr. DULLES - Would the nature of the entry wound give you any indication as to whether it entered backward or whether it entered forward?
Dr. GREGORY - My initial impression was that whatever produced the wound of the wrist was an irregular object, certainly not smooth nosed as the business end of this particular bullet is because of two things. The size of the wound of entrance, and the fact that it is irregular surfaced permitted it to pick up organic debris, materials, threads, and carry them into the wound with it.
Now, you will note that Dr. Shaw earlier in his testimony and in all of my conversations with him, never did indicate that there was any such loss of material into the wrist, nor does the back of this coat which I have examined show that it lost significant amounts of cloth but I think the tear in this coat sleeve does imply that there were bits of fabric lost, and I think those were resident in the wrist. I think we recovered them.
Mr. SPECTER - Is the back of that bullet characteristic of an irregular missile so as to cause the wound in the wrist?
Dr. GREGORY - I would say that the back of this being fiat and having sharp edges is irregular, and would possibly tend to tear tissues more than does an inclined plane such as this.
Mr. SPECTER - Would the back of the missile be sufficiently irregular to have caused the wound of the right wrist, in your opinion?
Dr. GREGORY - I think it could have; yes. It is possible.
Lance Payette:
--- Quote from: Tim Nickerson on Today at 01:43:25 AM ---Why do you say that the wrist fragments are not from CE-399?
--- End quote ---
I don't say that. John Orr does. I simply say it's an interesting idea because JBC's wrist wounds seem to me the most problematical for the condition of CE 399.
I just checked. Tink Thompson says JBC is hit at Z235. Mark Tyler, whose work I respect, says the first shot is at Z185 and JBC reacts at Z224-240. Rorschach test. I decline to dive into the debate. I simply do find CE 399 somewhat implausible, and eliminating the wrist wounds would make it far more plausible to me if that can be plausibly done.
Tom Graves:
--- Quote from: Lance Payette on Today at 01:58:52 AM ---I don't say that. John Orr does. I simply say it's an interesting idea because JBC's wrist wounds seem to me the most problematical for the condition of CE 399.
I just checked. Tink Thompson says JBC is hit at Z235. Mark Tyler, whose work I respect, says the first shot is at Z185 and JBC reacts at Z224-240. Rorschach test. I decline to dive into the debate. I simply do find CE 399 somewhat implausible, and eliminating the wrist wounds would make it far more plausible to me if that can be plausibly done.
--- End quote ---
Dear Lance,
Are there any "Lonenutter" researchers you respect who believe in the Single Bullet Hypothesis?
Or do you not respect them for the simple reason that they do believe in it?
-- Tom
Tim Nickerson:
--- Quote from: Lance Payette on Today at 01:58:52 AM ---I don't say that. John Orr does. I simply say it's an interesting idea because JBC's wrist wounds seem to me the most problematical for the condition of CE 399.
I just checked. Tink Thompson says JBC is hit at Z235. Mark Tyler, whose work I respect, says the first shot is at Z185 and JBC reacts at Z224-240. Rorschach test. I decline to dive into the debate. I simply do find CE 399 somewhat implausible, and eliminating the wrist wounds would make it far more plausible to me if that can be plausibly done.
--- End quote ---
Surely, you're aware of the Failure Analysis Test of 1992, are you not? What do you think CE-399 should have looked like after hitting the wrist? Granted, in the FAA test, the bullets struck the wrists nose-forward. However, Fackler didn't seem to think that mattered much.
Andrew Mason:
--- Quote from: David Von Pein on September 13, 2025, 06:38:49 AM ---….they could easily see that any theory that needs to be substituted for the Single-Bullet Conclusion lacks all credibility and can easily be shot full of holes via common sense alone.
--- End quote ---
The evidence is overwhelming that all three shots were fired by a single shooter from the SN and that the shooter was Oswald. That conclusion is not driven by common sense. It is compelled by the evidence.
Prior to Arlen Specter foisting his “common sense” on the WC the FBI was of the view that none of the three shots missed: the first struck JFK in the neck when JFK was opposite the lamp post near the Thornton sign (z190); the second struck JBC in the back around z275 causing all his wounds, and the third struck JFK in the head at z312-313. This sequence is apparent in the FBI working model:
Then the US Army ballistics experts showed that the bullet exiting JFK’s neck was still moving at significant speed. However, Dr. Light who was Chief of the Wound Assessment Branch at Edgewood Arsenal and a medical doctor who had practiced as a pathologist and whose area of study and work was the pathology of wounds, stated that JBC’s back wound is consistent with having been hit by a pristine bullet. The main reason he thought that it hadn’t had nothing to do with the wound characteristics but with the fact that JBC was in front of JFK: 5H94-96. He stated that he could not tell if the bullet that struck JBC in the back had been yawing: “I don’t feel too certain that it was yawing”.
So according to the most qualified expert on wound assessment, Dr. Light, the wounds in JBC were consistent with a pristine bullet hitting JBC. If all the witnesses who said that the third shot occurred rapidly after the second and the Connallys, Dave Powers, Gayle Newman were right that JBC was hit on the second shot, I don’t see any need for the SBT.
The rest of the evidence tells you that Oswald did it.
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