Calvery's location in Darnell supports those 2 guys' being Lovelady and Shelley

[Royell Storing]

You're missing the point, Thomas.
Royell was having a hard time believing that Gloria could have made the distance of 150 feet in 25 seconds.
I have demonstrated, using basic calculations, that Gloria could have covered the distance in 17 seconds at a modest pace of 6 mph, therefore, his concerns about Gloria making the distance in the time you proposed are unwarranted.
She could have easily made the distance in 25 seconds, so Royell's mind should be put at ease.

For argument's sake, let's say it's 120 feet to the concrete spur and 30 feet from there to the steps of the TSBD building.
Let's assume that, after having seen JFK's head explode, Gloria is in a full on, fight-or-flight, adrenaline-fueled sprint.
Let's say she's reached the perfectly achievable speed of 8mph.
It would take her a shade over 10 seconds to reach the spur.
It must be remembered that she had some kind of interaction with Shelley at the "little, old island" and most probably had an interaction with officer Joe Smith before she made her way to the front steps of the TSBD building. Let's say she reached the front steps about 20 seconds after the head shot.
This makes your identification of Shelley and Lovelady on Elm Street impossible.

   You can crunch all the numbers you want. But you are doing so in a vacuum. Nobody that witnessed the JFK Head Explosion was racing back to the TSBD. Including those 3 girls that were extremely distraught on film. Eyewitnesses were absolutely stunned and some were even sickened. This includes WW2 Vets like Willis and Brehm.   

[Tom Graves]

Nobody that witnessed the JFK Head Explosion was racing back to the TSBD. Including those 3 girls that were extremely distraught on film. Eyewitnesses were absolutely stunned and some were even sickened. This includes WW2 Vets like Willis and Brehm.

Comrade Storing,

You're so full of beans, I can smell you from here.

-- Tom

[Dan O'meara]

   You can crunch all the numbers you want. But you are doing so in a vacuum. Nobody that witnessed the JFK Head Explosion was racing back to the TSBD. Including those 3 girls that were extremely distraught on film. Eyewitnesses were absolutely stunned and some were even sickened. This includes WW2 Vets like Willis and Brehm.

You can crunch all the numbers you want.

I take it, Royell, that this is your way of accepting some basic mathematics, which you could (and should) have done yourself.
Gloria could have easily made the distance in the given time.
I hope that issue is now put to bed.

Nobody that witnessed the JFK Head Explosion was racing back to the TSBD. Including those 3 girls that were extremely distraught on film. Eyewitnesses were absolutely stunned and some were even sickened. This includes WW2 Vets like Willis and Brehm.

It's not really fair that you get to make statements like this for which you provide no evidence.
Willis wasn't close enough to see JFK's head explode and Brehm was with his boy so he just hit the deck, as did the Newmans, Summers, Hill and Moorman, Mumford and others.

In the pic below, the hard-hatted A J Millican is labelled.
To his right are stood 15 people including the Blue-headscarf-wearing Sharon Simmons, also labelled.



In the composite picture below, taken from the Weigman film, Millican is labelled.
The majority of people who were stood to his right are now gone.
This image was taken about 6 seconds after the head shot.
Everyone was not stood stunned.
The vast majority of those closest to the head shot either sprinted away or hit the deck.



I hope I have cleared this misconception up for you.

[Tom Graves]

Gloria Calvery is the largish/tall woman to the immediate left of Templin.

A slice of her lighter-colored plaid skirt is visible in a Couch-Darnell frame as she's standing on a lower TSBD step and to the immediate left of her dressed-in-all-white South-West Publishing Company colleague (Karan Hicks or Carol Reed), who can also be seen in the Zapruder frame, above, standing two people to the left of Calvery.

Factoid: The famous "Running Woman" on the Elm Street Extension in Couch-Darnell is the gal who's wearing the red headscarf and standing to the immediate left of Calvery. It's pretty obvious that she (Karan Hicks or Carol Reed) either removed her headscarf, or it fell off while she was running.

PS That's "I've Got a Weak Memory but I'm Quite the Embellisher After Fifty Years" Karen Westbrook Scranton standing to the immediate left of Gal-Dressed-All-In-White.

[Royell Storing]

You can crunch all the numbers you want.

I take it, Royell, that this is your way of accepting some basic mathematics, which you could (and should) have done yourself.
Gloria could have easily made the distance in the given time.
I hope that issue is now put to bed.

Nobody that witnessed the JFK Head Explosion was racing back to the TSBD. Including those 3 girls that were extremely distraught on film. Eyewitnesses were absolutely stunned and some were even sickened. This includes WW2 Vets like Willis and Brehm.

It's not really fair that you get to make statements like this for which you provide no evidence.
Willis wasn't close enough to see JFK's head explode and Brehm was with his boy so he just hit the deck, as did the Newmans, Summers, Hill and Moorman, Mumford and others.

In the pic below, the hard-hatted A J Millican is labelled.
To his right are stood 15 people including the Blue-headscarf-wearing Sharon Simmons, also labelled.



In the composite picture below, taken from the Weigman film, Millican is labelled.
The majority of people who were stood to his right are now gone.
This image was taken about 6 seconds after the head shot.
Everyone was not stood stunned.
The vast majority of those closest to the head shot either sprinted away or hit the deck.



I hope I have cleared this misconception up for you.

    I do Not buy into, "this image was taken "about" 6 seconds after the head shot. And yes, I know all about that being either the JFK Limo or the Queen Mary being seen going under the Triple Underpass. I do Not believe Wiegman was on the ground and running down Elm Street  6 seconds after the Kill Shot. Though the "6 second" timeline for that still frame would validate the Wiegman claim on, "Unsolved History JFK, Death In Dealey Plaza" DVD of his feeling the, "compression of a bullet on my face". Which of course would also validate a 2nd shooter positioned at roughly ground level. I simply do Not believe that Wiegman was on the ground running down Elm St only 6 seconds after the Kill Shot. The recently released opening half of the NBC Original Darnell Film shows all 3 camera cars at a Dead Stop at the turn from Houston onto Elm St. We are allegedly seeing these camera cars at roughly 30 seconds after the Kill Shot. The Wiegman Film shows him beginning to exit Camera Car #1 as that car is just beginning to make that turn onto Elm. And Wiegman said on "Unsolved History JFK, Death In Dealey Plaza" that he jumped out of the car because, "...it was moving too slowly". Why was the Wiegman Camera Car already crawling to a Stop before it reached the corner of Houston/Elm? Because the cars in front of it were slowing to a Stop due to the Kill Shot having already being fired. We can even see the Newman Family already on the ground. They had to scoop up the kids and move them across that extremely large sidewalk to reach the grass and then put the kids down on the ground and cover them. How long AFTER the adult Newmans had processed what they saw do you believe this took? Anybody dealing with kids this young knows moving kids this age around around takes time. I also believe the walking pace of that Professional Looking Lady that was standing along side Mumford on Elm St does signal the passage of time. She has processed what went down and is Walking back up Elm St via the sidewalk. And she was standing in the street when the JFK Limo came down Elm St. This processing of what went down in front of her takes time which leads to the composure we see her displaying.  Also, Phil Willis claimed to have witnessed the Kill Shot, as did his wife too. The release of the 1st half of the Original Darnell Film has opened a huge can of worms. This is why I believe NBC has not followed up with the release of the final half of the Darnell film. We will see far better images of that Black Hole Area between the picket fence and that "little wall, brick wall" that Officer Hargis testified that he crouched behind. We will also see far better/detailed images of the railroad yard including that No Glove Cop that for 61+ years has been mistakenly ID'd as Motorcycle Officer Haygood.  Thanks for posting those Wiegman still frames. They make our discussion very easy to comprehend as we exchange our impressions of this point in time on 11/22/63.   

[Dan O'meara]

    I do Not buy into, "this image was taken "about" 6 seconds after the head shot. And yes, I know all about that being either the JFK Limo or the Queen Mary being seen going under the Triple Underpass. I do Not believe Wiegman was on the ground and running down Elm Street  6 seconds after the Kill Shot. Though the "6 second" timeline for that still frame would validate the Wiegman claim on, "Unsolved History JFK, Death In Dealey Plaza" DVD of his feeling the, "compression of a bullet on my face". Which of course would also validate a 2nd shooter positioned at roughly ground level. I simply do Not believe that Wiegman was on the ground running down Elm St only 6 seconds after the Kill Shot. The recently released opening half of the NBC Original Darnell Film shows all 3 camera cars at a Dead Stop at the turn from Houston onto Elm St. We are allegedly seeing these camera cars at roughly 30 seconds after the Kill Shot. The Wiegman Film shows him beginning to exit Camera Car #1 as that car is just beginning to make that turn onto Elm. And Wiegman said on "Unsolved History JFK, Death In Dealey Plaza" that he jumped out of the car because, "...it was moving too slowly". Why was the Wiegman Camera Car already crawling to a Stop before it reached the corner of Houston/Elm? Because the cars in front of it were slowing to a Stop due to the Kill Shot having already being fired. We can even see the Newman Family already on the ground. They had to scoop up the kids and move them across that extremely large sidewalk to reach the grass and then put the kids down on the ground and cover them. How long AFTER the adult Newmans had processed what they saw do you believe this took? Anybody dealing with kids this young knows moving kids this age around around takes time. I also believe the walking pace of that Professional Looking Lady that was standing along side Mumford on Elm St does signal the passage of time. She has processed what went down and is Walking back up Elm St via the sidewalk. And she was standing in the street when the JFK Limo came down Elm St. This processing of what went down in front of her takes time which leads to the composure we see her displaying.  Also, Phil Willis claimed to have witnessed the Kill Shot, as did his wife too. The release of the 1st half of the Original Darnell Film has opened a huge can of worms. This is why I believe NBC has not followed up with the release of the final half of the Darnell film. We will see far better images of that Black Hole Area between the picket fence and that "little wall, brick wall" that Officer Hargis testified that he crouched behind. We will also see far better/detailed images of the railroad yard including that No Glove Cop that for 61+ years has been mistakenly ID'd as Motorcycle Officer Haygood.  Thanks for posting those Wiegman still frames. They make our discussion very easy to comprehend as we exchange our impressions of this point in time on 11/22/63.

How long after the head shot do you believe the Weigman image was taken?
You've said you don't believe it was "about 6 seconds" but not how long you actually thought it was.

[Royell Storing]

How long after the head shot do you believe the Weigman image was taken?
You've said you don't believe it was "about 6 seconds" but not how long you actually thought it was.

   Based on the opening segment of the Original Darnell Film being pushed as being 30 seconds after the Kill Shot, and Wiegman filming himself scooting out of the camera car, I would estimate we are looking at 25 seconds after the Kill Shot. Basically, we are looking at 5 seconds before the opening segment of the Original Darnell Film. That 6 seconds stuff for the Wiegman still frames just does not work with respect to what we Now know of the camera cars coming to a dead stop and Wiegman telling his story to Gary Mack as he did his Dealey Plaza walk-through. The only reason we get this 6 second timeline is to squelch the Limo Stop or Extended Slow Roll discussions.