There seems to be a problem with Officer Baker's testimony.

[Tom Graves]

(Title changed from "How long did it take Officer Baker to reach the TSBD's front steps after the 3rd shot?" to "There seems to be a problem with Officer Baker's testimony.")

According to Mark Tyler's synchronized map of the motorcade, after the 3rd shot it took DPD officer Marion Baker 15 seconds to park his motorcycle.

Baker testified to the Warren Commission that after he parked his motorcycle, he heard over its radio Chief Curry say "send all available men to the railway yard (or words to that effect) and started running towards the TSBD front steps at that time.

Curry spoke that "railway yard" order twice -- the first time was 65 seconds after the 3rd shot, and the second time 15 seconds after that (because the dispatcher didn't fully understand the first transmission).

According to Mark Tyler's graphics alone:

12:30:00  -- The Z-313 fatal head shot occurs

12:30:15 -- Baker parks his motorcycle

12:30:20 -- Baker starts running towards the front steps

12:30:25  -- Baker arrives at the TSBD front door. 

However,

According to a combination of Baker's WC testimony, the audio of the DPD radio transmissions as synced to the timing of the fatal head shot by Tyler, and Tyler's graphics as they pertain only to the 1) 12:30:00 fatal head shot, and 2) the 12:30:15 parking of Baker's motorcycle:

12:30:00 -- Fatal head shot

12:30:15 -- Baker parks his motorcycle

12:30:35 -- Curry transmits "get men up on the overpass"

12:31:05 -- Curry transmits "get men to the railway yard" and Baker, per his WC testimony, starts running towards the steps at this point (or perhaps 15 seconds later -- see below)

12:31:20 -- Curry re-transmits "get men to the railway yard," and Baker, possibly like the dispatcher now able to understand what Curry had said 15 seconds earlier, now starts running towards the steps.

. . . . . . .

If Baker started running towards the front steps 65 seconds after the 3rd shot, big/tall, black blouse and black headscarf-wearing Gloria Calvery and her dressed-all-in-white colleague (Karan Hicks or Carol Reed), who were standing about 90 feet down Elm Street from the front steps during the motorcade, had plenty of time to walk or run to the TSBD and be on the steps in time for Calvery to tell Lovelady and Shelley, about ten seconds before Baker arrived there, that JFK had been shot. (I say ten seconds because in Couch-Darnell we can see Lovelady and Shelley almost as far as the "Huge Gates" on the side of the building as they are (apparently) on their way to the railway yard / parking lot for a quick look-see, after which they returned to the TSBD and entered it through a rear door.

In this scenario, it's possible that Officer Baker didn't enter the TSBD until at least 70 seconds after the 3rd shot. Ergo Truly (who can be seen in the Darnell clip standing in front of the TSBD and watching Baker run past him), followed by Baker, may not have reached the 2nd-floor until at about a minute-and-a-half after the 3rd shot, thereby giving Oswald plenty of time to reach the lunch room on that floor before they got there.

If Vicki Adams and Sandra Styles lingered at the window, watching all the commotion going on below, and then talked with Mrs. Gardner for a grand total of about a minute and twenty seconds before starting down, Oswald, Truly and Baker may have been out of sight inside the lunchroom's "vestibule" when they were quickly traversing the corner of that floor on their way downstairs.

https://www.marktyler.org/mc63.html?fbclid=IwY2xjawK4zONleHRuA2FlbQIxMABicmlkETFFODdsRHVIa2RSUGZJNllFAR6Zx-0JB5zBmwy-qakJKtfLfY5vcW9V2IqOrNXjP-oezkHhb-av38NlRUa-uA_aem_2d95NRPz2dpt6k_03l7iYg


Caveat:

Even if Baker conflated Curry's 12:30:35 "up on the overpass" with his 12:30:05 "to the railway yard?" transmission in his WC testimony as to when he started running towards the TSBD, it still doesn't jibe with what we see happening (e.g., Baker's running's juxtaposed with motorcade cars' and motorcycles actions) in the Couch-Darnell clip.

[Tim Nickerson]

According to Mark Tyler's synchronized map of the motorcade, after the 3rd shot it took DPD officer Marion Baker 15 seconds to park his motorcycle.

Baker testified to the Warren Commission that after he parked his motorcycle, but before he started running towards the TSBD's front steps, he heard over the radio Captain Curry order all available men to go to the railway yard.

Curry said that twice -- the first time was 65 seconds after the 3rd shot, and the second time was 15 seconds later (because the dispatcher said he didn't fully understand the first transmission).

We therefore know that big/tall, black blouse and black headscarf-wearing Gloria Calvery and her dressed-all-in-white colleague (Karan Hicks or Carol Reed), who were standing about 90 feet down Elm Street from the front steps during the motorcade, had plenty of time to walk or run back to the TSBD and be on the steps in time for Calvery to tell Lovelady and Shelley, about ten seconds before Baker arrived there, that JFK had been shot. (I say ten seconds because we can see Lovelady and Shelley almost as far as the "Huge Gates" on the side of the building as they are (apparently) on their way to the railway yard / parking lot for a quick look-see, after which they returned to the TSBD and entered it through a rear door.

Bottom line: Officer Baker didn't enter the TSBD until at least 70 seconds after the 3rd shot. Ergo Truly (who can be seen in the Darnell clip standing in front of the TSBD and watching Baker run past him), followed by Baker, didn't reach the 2nd-floor until at about a minute-and-a-half after the 3rd shot, thereby giving Oswald plenty of time to reach the lunch room on that floor before they got there.

If Vicki Adams and Sandra Styles lingered at the window watching all the commotion going on below and then talked with Mrs. Gardner for a grand total of about a minute and twenty seconds before starting down, Oswald, Truly and Baker may have been out of sight inside the lunchroom's "vestibule" when Adams and Styles were quickly traversing the corner of that floor on their way downstairs.

https://www.marktyler.org/mc63.html?fbclid=IwY2xjawK4zONleHRuA2FlbQIxMABicmlkETFFODdsRHVIa2RSUGZJNllFAR6Zx-0JB5zBmwy-qakJKtfLfY5vcW9V2IqOrNXjP-oezkHhb-av38NlRUa-uA_aem_2d95NRPz2dpt6k_03l7iYg

 

Nice pick up by you. I've never seen that pointed out before.

[Lance Payette]

According to Mark Tyler's synchronized map of the motorcade, after the 3rd shot it took DPD officer Marion Baker 15 seconds to park his motorcycle.

Baker testified to the Warren Commission that after he parked his motorcycle, but before he started running towards the TSBD's front steps, he heard over the radio Chief Curry order all available men to go to the railway yard.

Curry said that twice -- the first time was 65 seconds after the 3rd shot, and the second time was 15 seconds later (because the dispatcher said he didn't fully understand the first transmission).

We therefore know that big/tall, black blouse and black headscarf-wearing Gloria Calvery and her dressed-all-in-white colleague (Karan Hicks or Carol Reed), who were standing about 90 feet down Elm Street from the front steps during the motorcade, had plenty of time to walk or run back to the TSBD and be on the steps in time for Calvery to tell Lovelady and Shelley, about ten seconds before Baker arrived there, that JFK had been shot. (I say ten seconds because in Couch-Darnell we can see Lovelady and Shelley almost as far as the "Huge Gates" on the side of the building as they are (apparently) on their way to the railway yard / parking lot for a quick look-see, after which they returned to the TSBD and entered it through a rear door.

Bottom line: Officer Baker didn't enter the TSBD until at least 70 seconds after the 3rd shot. Ergo Truly (who can be seen in the Darnell clip standing in front of the TSBD and watching Baker run past him), followed by Baker, didn't reach the 2nd-floor until at about a minute-and-a-half after the 3rd shot, thereby giving Oswald plenty of time to reach the lunch room on that floor before they got there.

If Vicki Adams and Sandra Styles lingered at the window, watching all the commotion going on below, and then talked with Mrs. Gardner for a grand total of about a minute and twenty seconds before starting down, Oswald, Truly and Baker may have been out of sight inside the lunchroom's "vestibule" when they were quickly traversing the corner of that floor on their way downstairs.

https://www.marktyler.org/mc63.html?fbclid=IwY2xjawK4zONleHRuA2FlbQIxMABicmlkETFFODdsRHVIa2RSUGZJNllFAR6Zx-0JB5zBmwy-qakJKtfLfY5vcW9V2IqOrNXjP-oezkHhb-av38NlRUa-uA_aem_2d95NRPz2dpt6k_03l7iYg

I don't disagree with any of that, but I still find Oswald's reaction to the Baker encounter to be borderline supernatural. You've just shot the POTUS and you pull off THAT act 90 seconds later??? Granted, Oswald wasn't required to actually do or say anything; perhaps he was in a state of shock and thus appeared cooler than any cucumber I can imagine.

I was not aware of Mark Tyler's work, but it is fantastic. His Technical Reference Handbook that accompanies the videos is a meticulous, non-dogmatic analysis of what we know occurred and what might have occurred. It does not promote either the LN narrative or a CT narrative and is well worth anyone's time.

[Tom Graves]

I don't disagree with any of that, but I still find Oswald's reaction to the Baker encounter to be borderline supernatural. You've just shot the POTUS and you pull off THAT act 90 seconds later??? Granted, Oswald wasn't required to actually do or say anything; perhaps he was in a state of shock and thus appeared cooler than any cucumber I can imagine.

I was not aware of Mark Tyler's work, but it is fantastic. His Technical Reference Handbook that accompanies the videos is a meticulous, non-dogmatic analysis of what we know occurred and what might have occurred. It does not promote either the LN narrative or a CT narrative and is well worth anyone's time.

Yes, except either Baker misremembered Curry's "up to the overpass" order with "up to the railyard" order, or Tyler has Baker running towards the front steps about a minute too soon.

[Tim Nickerson]

Yes, except either Baker misremembered Curry's "up to the overpass" order with "up to the railyard" order, or Tyler has Baker running towards the front steps about a minute too soon.

I just checked. Curry's "Get a man on top of that triple underpass and see what happened up there" was made just after a 12:30 timestamp on channel two. It was not 65 seconds after the third shot.

[Tom Graves]

I just checked. Curry's "Get a man on top of that triple underpass and see what happened up there" was made just after a 12:30 timestamp on channel two. It was not 65 seconds after the third shot.

Tim,

I've just retitled this thread "There seems to be a problem with Officer Baker's testimony."

Perhaps you'd like to re-read it?

Regardless, even though I like Mark Tyler's portrayal of Billy Lovelady's and Gloria Calvary's brief interaction in the street in front of the TSBD, it mystifies me as to why he has Lovelady just kinda hangin' out near that spot after she continues on her way to the steps (instead of his walking down the right side of Elm Street Extension towards the railway yard as I believe we see him doing in Couch-Darnell), not to mention the fact that Lovelady's putative sidekick, William Shelley, is nowhere to be seen in Tyler's animation.

-- Tom

[Lance Payette]

Tim,

I've just retitled this thread "There seems to be a problem with Officer Baker's testimony."

Perhaps you'd like to re-read it?

Regardless, even though I like Mark Tyler's portrayal of Billy Lovelady's and Gloria Calvary's brief interaction in the street in front of the TSBD, it mystifies me as to why he has Lovelady just kinda hangin' out near that spot after she continues on her way to the steps (instead of his walking down the right side of Elm Street Extension towards the railway yard as I believe we see him doing in Couch-Darnell), not to mention the fact that Lovelady's putative sidekick, William Shelley, is nowhere to be seen in Tyler's animation.

-- Tom

If you're mystified, ask him. He invites comments and provides his email address.

[Tom Graves]

If you're mystified, ask him. He invites comments and provides his email address.

Thanks, Lance.

Question:

Whom do you think the two men are that we see walking/running down the right side of Elm Street Extension towards the railway yard / parking lot as Baker's running towards the TSBD steps in Couch-Darnell?

-- Tom