JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate > JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate

If they weren't already brainwashed, what would convince CTs that LHO did it?

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Michael T. Griffith:

--- Quote from: Tom Graves on August 31, 2025, 10:44:14 PM ---Dear Michael "'Useful Idiot' or Worse" Griffith, Your calling Huskr's theory "zany" doesn't invalidate it. Your posting that lame excerpt from your article suggests that you haven't even read the eight-page article by Huskr that I provided to you in my earlier post.
--- End quote ---


Huskr's theory is patently zany. Even Gerald Posner and Jim Moore long since abandoned the theory that a head-shot fragment caused the Tague curb mark and wounding. BTW, that silly theory was proposed long before Huskr came along.

I notice you ignored the point made in my article excerpt that NASA expert Dr. Thomas Canning admitted to the HSCA that the windshield damage appeared to be too high to have been caused by a fragment from the head shot. Canning was the Select Committee's trajectory expert, hired specifically to do a trajectory analysis. Yet, even he said the windshield damage did not seem to line up with a credible trajectory from the head shot.

I also noticed you ignored the point that any fragment from the head shot, according to your version of the shooting, would have exited from the alleged wound above the right ear and would have then had to clear the roll bar and the windshield. Huskr never explains how the bullet could have done this and still have hit the Tague curb. Again, even Posner and Moore don't buy Huskr's ludicrous theory.


--- Quote from: Tom Graves on August 31, 2025, 10:44:14 PM ---Questions: 1) What percentage of the headshot bullet was found inside the limo?  60%? 70%?
--- End quote ---

I can tell you have no clue about the evidence relating to fragments and bullets found in the limousine. How about the deformed bullet that was found in the limo after it had arrived in DC and that was received by Dr. Young at the autopsy? How about the bullet that Secret Service agent Paul Landis recently admitted he found lodged in the back seat of the limo?

BTW, before Dr. Young went public with his knowledge of the deformed bullet, he checked with the Navy chief petty officer, Chief Mills, who found the bullet and who brought it to him, just to confirm that his account was accurate. What makes Young's disclosure so devastating is that for decades he assumed that the deformed bullet was fired by Oswald and was discussed in the Warren Report. He was surprised to later learn that the WC said nothing about the bullet, and only then did he come forward with his knowledge of the bullet. He was so naive that he even contacted Arlen Specter to try to find out why the WC did not mention the bullet!

I discuss Dr. Young's disclosure in my article "Extra Bullets and Missed Shots in Dealey Plaza":

https://safe.menlosecurity.com/doc/docview/viewer/docNA58EEBF7E9DE2b4727ab758453613131680210c55f6374b2cd4f8cac00aaa9cfe517234e42a8

Medical and science editor Milicent Cranor has written two good articles on Dr. Young's accounts:

https://whowhatwhy.org/politics/government-integrity/navy-doctor-bullet-found-jfks-limousine-never-reported/

https://www.kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/bending-the-story-on-a-bent-bullet


--- Quote from: Tom Graves on August 31, 2025, 10:44:14 PM ---2) If the dent in the chrome wasn't caused by a fragment from the headshot bullet, what caused it?
--- End quote ---

Oh, dear. Now this is curious Umm, FYI, many of your fellow WC apologists have doggedly denied that the chrome dent was caused by a bullet or fragment during the assassination. I have had several discussions with WC defenders who've claimed the dent was made before the assassination. And, also FYI, your beloved Warren Commission was the first one to float the idea that the chrome dent was made prior to the assassination.

Now, I certainly agree that the chrome dent was made during the shooting. Photos of the limo taken shortly before the assassination show no dent in the chrome strip above the windshield. Judging from its size and shape, the dent must have been made by a large fragment or a bullet. It could very well have been made by the bullet that Chief Mills and Chief Martinell found in the limo and gave to Dr. Young.

Given Canning's admission that the windshield damage did not appear to line up with a trajectory from the head shot, how do you get a bullet or fragment that supposedly exited from above the right ear to hit the chrome strip above the windshield? How? More of your voodoo and self-delusion?

BTW, FBI ballistics expert Robert Frazier told the WC that "if" the chrome dent was made during the shooting, it was made by a fragment "traveling at fairly high velocity." Uh-oh, this is a problem, because Frazier also admitted that the alleged murder weapon was a low-velocity rifle (3 H 414). (BTW, the Clark Panel said the head wounds were caused by a high-velocity bullet.)

Royell Storing:

 So, I guess the Max Holland stuff about a shot from the sniper's nest hitting the signal light/support beam and deflecting into the curb near Tague has been abandoned? It's nice of the LN Community to Silently run away from a once heralded claim that never did have a shred of evidence to back it up.

Lance Payette:
To answer Tom's query seriously - what fun is that? - the most common complaint by CTers and LNers alike is that their antagonists are "closed-minded" fanatics who filter all arguments and evidence through a lens of preconception and will never be budged by anything. I must say, I share this perception.

AND YET, I myself am proof of the contrary! For at least 35 or 40 years my perspective was "How could ANYONE possibly think Oswald acted alone???" Go back 20 or so years and my posts on City-Data and then the Ed Forum were solidly, 100% CT-oriented.

Why was this? I was steeped in NOTHING BUT conspiracy literature, from Lifton on down. I lacked the evidence-evaluating and critical-thinking skills that I would hone over 40 years of legal practice.

What changed my mind? First and foremost, an in-depth study of Oswald the man - literally everything I could find. Suddenly, the LN narrative seemed a lot more plausible. Then, of course, I became more familiar with the LN literature and arguments and could see the gaping holes and absurdities in the CT narratives.

But what was really the key? This will be a problem for most of you, CTers and LNers alike: I HAD NO IDEOLOGICAL, POLITICAL OR PHILOSOPHICAL COMMITMENT OR AGENDA. JFK meant nothing to me. Who killed him meant nothing to me, other than an historical puzzle. The consequences of his death for the America of today didn't concern me. The JFKA was, and is, just an interesting puzzle, a real-world whodunnit. That's the problem I think most LNers and CTers have - they are wedded to some ideological or political agenda that REQUIRES a CT or LN perspective for reasons only marginally related to the JFKA.

Royell Storing:

  The assassination of JFK was Not a "historical puzzle". JFK had the Deep State after him as well as Organized Crime. Trump currently has the Deep State and the World Drug Cartels trying to take him out. Learn from the past.

Tom Graves:

--- Quote from: Royell Storing on September 02, 2025, 06:53:02 PM ---So, I guess the Max Holland stuff about a shot from the sniper's nest hitting the signal light/support beam and deflecting into the curb near Tague has been abandoned? It's nice of the LN Community to Silently run away from a once heralded claim that never did have a shred of evidence to back it up.

--- End quote ---

Comrade Storing,

People who, unlike you, can think rationally and scientifically, are willing to modify (and in some cases completely abandon) their hypotheses based on the introduction of new evidence.

Max Holland was right to point out that Oswald's first, missing-everything, shot occurred before Zapruder resumed filming at Z-133. He thought it happened at hypothetical (as in not-caught-on-film-because-Zapruder-wasn't-filming-at-the-time) "Z-107," but Brian Roselle and Kenneth Scearce showed in a journal article published in 2020 that it was more likely at hypothetical "Z-124," as indicated, for example, by the fact that in Z-141, Rosemary Willis isn't looking at the limo passing by her, but has already begun looking back towards the TSBD.

https://www.acsr.org/post/estimating-occult-timing-of-surprise-gunshot-sounds-in-silent-film-via-observed-start-of-human-vol

And, as I've recently shown you, it's possible that James Tague was struck by a bullet fragment from the fatal head shot.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1CcnCy17Hwqqw3zBCK7ls8peA3DxmVzhk/view?fbclid=IwY2xjawMhX_FleHRuA2FlbQIxMABicmlkETE4VkU5OWFad0pmb1lWbEZuAR5CqzVfS_kwwhC_esko7HReWTqLEm4HwHGKLg7IekI23kvFroXG0TSxU8jJ7A_aem_AKz6PqzUnM04cOaEZOVC6g

-- Tom

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