JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate > JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate
Team Headed by Former CIA Officer Concludes JFK Was Killed by a Conspiracy
Lance Payette:
Good grief, has no one else read this massive (800-page), exhaustive biography of De Mohrenschildt? (It is available for Kindle in two $10 volumes. The author was at the Ed Forum for a short time but then seemed to disappear.)
https://www.amazon.com/Faux-Baron-Mohrenschildt-Aristocrats-Assassination/dp/1501021494.
Sorry, but wacky George was about as "CIA" or "KGB" as Elmer Fudd. He was a genuinely fascinating guy, and a better candidate than Oswald for The Most Interesting Man in the World, but he was nothing more than a classic eccentric. I have no difficulty at all picturing him being attracted to Oswald and Marina for entirely non-CIA and non-KGB reasons.
Here is the author discussing the book on a JFKA-related site. Lest you think she's an LN advocate, she in fact thinks Oswald was "both CIA and FBI," used to appear at CT conferences, and is pretty widely regarded as a CT-oriented researcher. Nevertheless, her view of De Mohrenschildt is pretty much mine - and her biography is highly regarded even by those who have no interest in the JFKA.
//www.youtube.com/watch?v=24kLiDw84Js
Tom Graves:
--- Quote from: Jon Banks on September 05, 2025, 07:34:37 PM ---The USSR no longer exists.
--- End quote ---
A true defector, KGB Major Anatoliy Golitsyn, who in the 1950s had helped the Kremlin draw up its new (reinstituted from the Operation Trust 1920s, actually) Sun Tzu-based plans to get us to defeat ourselves by waging disinformation, "active measures," and mole-based strategic deception counterintelligence operations against us and our NATO allies, tried to warn the CIA and the FBI in the 1960s that the coming breakup of the USSR would be a ruse to get us to drop our guard.
--- Quote ---Russia and China are now capitalist countries that engage in the global economy.
--- End quote ---
Grok:
It is partially correct to describe Russia and China as capitalist countries engaging in the global economy. Both have adopted market-oriented reforms and participate actively in global trade, with China as a manufacturing giant and Russia as a commodity exporter. However, their economies are better characterized as state capitalist, with significant government control and political motivations shaping economic activity. Russia’s global engagement is constrained by sanctions and dependence on China, while China’s strategic integration into global markets gives it greater influence. Neither fully aligns with the free-market capitalism of Western economies, as their systems prioritize state power over economic liberalization. [emphasis in original]
Tom Graves:
--- Quote from: Michael T. Griffith on September 05, 2025, 04:27:44 PM ---Perhaps in your alternative reality we did, but not down here on Earth. Such nonsense shows you are unserious and fringe.
No, but you treated Baer's argument about Redmond as nothing more than baseless, wild-eyed speculation, and falsely accused him of "hating" the CIA. Baer's book is a serious work of scholarship that cannot be waved aside with your fringe polemic.
Ah, yes, of course you automatically went running to Baer's critics and Redmond's defenders.
I should note that Baer repeatedly stipulates that he is not certain that Redmond was a KGB mole (i.e., the fourth Russian super spy). Baer also allows that the Russians may have tried to frame Redmond.
For those who want to hear the other side of the story, here are some links that explain and support Baer's research on the subject.
https://securityanddefence.pl/Robert-Baer-2022-The-Fourth-Man-The-Hunt-for-the-KGB-s-CIA-Mole-and-Why-the-US-Overlooked,153003,0,2.html
//www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAhJZif5E5U
--- End quote ---
Dear Comrade Griffith,
It's interesting that Baer's interviewer, Adam Lashinsky, is associated with the San Francisco-based Commonwealth Club of California, the same outfit for which honey-trapped-and-recruited-by-KGB / fired-in-1957-but-not-prosecuted-by-CIA Edward Ellis Smith (who'd been the incompetent dead drop setter-upper in Moscow for CIA's spy, GRU Lt. Col. Pyotr Popov) was the head of the club's International Relations department until he was killed in a mysterious hit-and-run accident in Redwood City, California, in 1982.
Former CIA counterintelligence officer Tennent H. Bagley, PhD., writes quite a lot about Smith in his 2007 Yale University Press book, Spy Wars: Moles, Mysteries, and Deadly Games.
Bagley believed that Smith had betrayed Popov to KGB General Vladislav Kovshuk in D.C. movie houses in early 1957 and that Smith may have helped the KGB recruit another (never uncovered) CIA officer. John M. Newman (who dedicated his 2022 book Uncovering Popov's Mole to Bagley) believes that it was James Angleton's confidant, mentor, and mole-hunting superior, Bruce Solie, who betrayed Popov in those movie houses, with logistical support from Smith and James McCord (of future Watergate notoriety).
You can read Bagley's book for free by googling "spy wars" and "archive" simultaneously.
-- Tom
Jon Banks:
--- Quote from: Lance Payette on September 05, 2025, 09:16:05 PM ---Sorry, but wacky George was about as "CIA" or "KGB" as Elmer Fudd.
--- End quote ---
A CIA asset or informant can be anyone. It's not as exclusive a group as CIA officers or employees.
It's highly plausible that DeMorenschildt told the truth, that he did favors for the CIA in exchange for help with his business interests as he described to Edward Epstein:
"During their talks De Mohrenschildt admitted that in 1962 he had been contacted by J. Walton Moore, who was employed by the Central Intelligence Agency in Dallas.
De Mohrenschildt was asked by Moore to find out about Oswald's time in the Soviet Union. In return he was given help with an oil deal he was negotiating with Papa Doc Duvalier, the Haitian dictator. In March 1963, De Mohrenschildt got the contract from the Haitian government. He had assumed that this was because of the help he had given to the CIA."
https://spartacus-educational.com/JFKepstein.htm
The CIA, which didn't brief Oswald when he returned from the Soviet Union, likely learned about his time in Minsk via DeMorenschildt's conversations with Lee.
Similarly, Clay Shaw, another prominent businessman, also was a CIA asset who did favors for the agency. There are many such cases in the world of international businessmen.
Jon Banks:
--- Quote from: Tom Graves on September 06, 2025, 12:00:52 AM ---
A true defector, KGB Major Anatoliy Golitsyn, who in the 1950s had helped the Kremlin draw up its new (reinstituted from the Operation Trust 1920s, actually) Sun Tzu-based plans to get us to defeat ourselves by waging disinformation, "active measures," and mole-based strategic deception counterintelligence operations against us and our NATO allies, tried to warn the CIA and the FBI in the 1960s that the coming breakup of the USSR would be a ruse to get us to drop our guard.
--- End quote ---
How old are you?
The Cold War was centered around ideology, not russophobia. The Soviet Union spent decades supporting revolutionary movements around the world and promoting communist ideology. All that ended when the Berlin Wall fell.
Russia today is a rightwing oligarchy. They're not supporting revolutionary movements or promoting international communism anymore.
And China's communist party is "communist" in name only.
Today, there is no ideological war between the West and communism. It's over. We won.
Now we're dealing with the consequences of late-stage capitalism.
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