JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate > JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate
"And he said 'I shot Walker'"
John Mytton:
--- Quote from: Michael T. Griffith on August 11, 2025, 05:06:32 PM ---
And why in the world would someone who tried to kill the fanatically right-wing General Walker turn around and shoot JFK? That makes no sense whatsoever.
--- End quote ---
You're applying the wrong political criteria, we know that in the Dallas Times Herald just days before the assassination that Kennedy wanted to oust Fidell and we also know that it's most likely that Oswald's alias Hidell" was based on "Fidel"
I think that Oswald's(Hidell) main motivation was his wanting to be accepted as a Marxist and any political leader that spoke ill of Fidel Castro was put on Oswald's hit list, CT's claim that the left Kennedy and the extreme right Walker had no connection but I believe that in Oswald's eyes, what connected Kennedy and Walker was their dislike of the Cuban regime.
Fritz was the one of the last people to spend considerable time with Oswald.
Mr. DULLES. Have you any views of your own as to motive from your talks with him? Did you get any clues as to possible motive in assassinating the President?
Mr. FRITZ. I can only tell you what little I know now. I am sure that we have people in Washington here that can tell far more than I can.
Mr. DULLES. Well, you saw the man and the others didn't see the man.
Mr. FRITZ. I got the impression, I got the impression that he was doing it because of his feeling about the Castro revolution, and I think that he felt, he had a lot of feeling about that revolution.
(At this point the Chief Justice entered the hearing room.)
Mr. FRITZ. I think that was the reason. I noticed another thing. I noticed a little before when Walker was shot, he had come out with some statements about Castro and about Cuba and a lot of things and if you will remember the President had some stories a few weeks before his death about Cuba and about Castro and some things, and I wondered if that didn't have some bearing. I have no way of knowing that other than just watching him and talking to him. I think it was his feeling about his belief in being a Marxist, I think he had--he told me he had debated in New Orleans, and that he tried to get converts to this Fair Play for Cuba organization, so I think that was his motive. I think he was doing it because of that.
Oswald in New Orleans handing out "Hands off Cuba" leaflets
Oswald's "Fair play for Cuba" membership card where he was also the Chapter President.
Three days before Oswald killed Kennedy, there was this newspaper article in the Dallas Times Herald of Kennedy saying that it would be a happy day if the Castro government was ousted.
Oswald's personal possessions had a number of positive pieces of Castro literature.
A week after the Dallas Herald Times reported that Walker wanted to "liquidate the [communist] scourge that has descended upon the island of Cuba" Oswald ordered his rifle and not long after Oswald took surveillance photos of General Walkers house and a little later Oswald tried to kill General Walker.
In February 1963, Walker joined Billy Hargis on an anti-communist tour named "Operation Midnight Ride".[24] In a speech Walker made on March 5, reported in the Dallas Times Herald, he called on the United States military to "liquidate the [communist] scourge that has descended upon the island of Cuba."[25] Seven days later, Lee Harvey Oswald ordered a Carcano rifle by mail, using the alias "A. Hidell".[26]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwin_Walker
JohnM
Bill Brown:
Damn. Michael Griffith is taking a serious beating from Lance Payette and John Mytton. I almost feel sorry for him.
Charles Collins:
--- Quote from: Michael T. Griffith on August 11, 2025, 05:06:32 PM ---This is dubious hearsay given by Marina when she was being held in a hotel room and threatened by the Secret Service and the FBI and was scared to death of being deported. Marina also said she saw Oswald cleaning the Carcano rifle early in January 1963, but the rifle was not sent to the "Hidell" post office box until the end of March.
There are numerous problems with the case against Oswald in the Walker shooting, starting with the fact that Walker himself said the bullet looked nothing like an WCC FMJ bullet and that not one of the fingerprints on Oswald's alleged goodbye note to Marina matched his or Marina's fingerprints. Two of the three HSCA handwriting experts said the note was not written in Oswald's handwriting. I should add that the note did not surface until two months after the assassination and came from--guess who?--Ruth Paine.
And why in the world would someone who tried to kill the fanatically right-wing General Walker turn around and shoot JFK? That makes no sense whatsoever.
https://www.kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/oswald-and-the-shot-at-walker-redressing-the-balance
http://22november1963.org.uk/did-lee-oswald-shoot-general-edwin-walker
--- End quote ---
This is dubious hearsay given by Marina when she was being held in a hotel room and threatened by the Secret Service and the FBI and was scared to death of being deported.
According to James Hosty in his book “Assignment Oswald” an Immigration and Naturalization Service attorney told Marina Oswald, just before his first post assassination interview with Marina on Wednesday 11/27/63, that she definitely was not going to be deported. Here is a snippet from Hosty’s book page 120:
After just a few minutes the INS attorney and Gopadze came out of the room. The INS attorney, acting jittery and nervous, headed straight for the door and quickly left. Brown and I huddled with Gopadze and asked him what that was all about. Shaking his head in disgust, Gopadze told us that the INS man had just informed Marina that the INS was most definitely not going to deport her, but that they still wanted her to cooperate with the FBI.
And if one reads further on about Hosty’s interview, it turns out that Robert Oswald was present and was trying to be sure Marina was treated properly.
Charles Collins:
--- Quote from: Bill Brown on August 12, 2025, 05:32:55 AM ---Damn. Michael Griffith is taking a serious beating from Lance Payette and John Mytton. I almost feel sorry for him.
--- End quote ---
This is typically when they simply disappear for a while without a response. Then after a long pause they show back up and continue with the same old arguments as if no one had even tried to counter them.
Michael T. Griffith:
--- Quote from: Lance Payette on August 11, 2025, 10:34:27 PM ---To put this as charitably and statesmanlike as possible, you are a BS BS: artist of the first magnitude. I don't know why anyone would trust ANYTHING you say. Worse yet, the above factoid - which is pure BS: - is repeated throughout the conspiracy literature.
This is not a difficult research project, folks. The report of the HSCA handwriting panel is here: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=961#relPageId=227.
Three documents were related because they were mostly or entirely in Russian. The panel designated them Items 23, 56 and 57, to wit:
Item 23: Russian script on lined paper from Alek to Marina and June dated 2-20-1962.
Item 56: Undated ten-line note in Russian signed Alek.
Item 57: The Walker note.
Here is what the three examiners actually said:
Joseph P. McNally
The Russian language on items 23, 56 and 57 is by the same person.
The portions in Latin conform to all the other Oswald-signed documents.
David J. Purtell
With regard to the Russian portions of items 23, 56 and 57, “this examiner is not familiar with this language and the characteristics of the various writing systems used.”
He thus was unable to render a definite opinion but noted there were similarities between the writing in items 23, 56 and 57 and the other (Oswald-signed) items.
Charles C. Scott
Did not examine items 23, 56 and 57 at all.
"Two of the three HSCA handwriting experts said the note was not written in Oswald's handwriting."
Really?
Only in Factoid City.
Only in Conspiracy World.
Only in Michael's BS BS: posts.
--- End quote ---
First off, yes, I stand corrected about the conclusions of the HSCA handwriting experts on the note's handwriting. I got that claim from the usually reliable 22november1963.org.uk website. I should have gone back and double-checked the handwriting experts' report, which the 22november1963 folks actually cite with a link. Clearly, they either misread the report or chose to misrepresent it.
And, oh yes, I see, not surprisingly, that a bunch of WC apologists are hooting and posturing over my mistake, labeling it as proof of my many supposed "lies," etc., etc. Unlike you folks, when I make a mistake, I admit it. You guys have made many egregious errors that I have documented for you, but you have never once acknowledged any of them.
Two, I note that you once again failed to address the fact (1) that the one eyewitness saw two men hurriedly leave and said neither man resembled Oswald, and (2) that none of the several fingerprints on the note were Oswald's or Marina's prints. In all your excitement over being able to pounce on one of my rare errors, perhaps you just forgot about these two key facts. So let me discuss them again:
The one eyewitness, Walter Coleman, said he saw two men hurriedly leave the church parking lot next to Walker's house and that neither man looked like Oswald. Coleman said he had seen numerous pictures of Lee Harvey Oswald, and he was shown a photograph of Oswald among several other photographs. He said that neither of the men he saw resembled Oswald, and that he had never seen anyone in or around the Walker residence before or after the night of the shooting who resembled Oswald.
I should add that Robert Surrey reported that days before the Walker shooting he saw two men sitting in a car near Walker's house and that the men later seemed to be inspecting the windows and area surrounding the Walker home. Surrey said that neither of these men resembled Oswald (https://www.tpaak.com/walker-allegations).
And, not one of the several fingerprints on the goodbye note belonged to Oswald or Marina. Seven fingerprints were found on the note, but none of them belonged to Oswald or his wife. How do you write a note and not leave a single fingerprint on it? How did Marina read the note without leaving a single print on it?
Three, yes, Walker said the bullet was mangled, but he also made it clear that the bullet was not a WCC Carcano FMJ bullet. He was adamant on this point:
During the HSCA investigation in the 1970’s, General Walker himself said that
the bullet in evidence was not the same bullet that was found in his house on 10th
April 1963. He wrote to the Attorney General in February 1979 and said that it was
“a ridiculous substitute.” He went on to state that “I saw the hunk of lead, picked up
by a policeman in my house, and I took it from him and I inspected it carefully.
There is no mistake. There has been a substitution for the bullet fired by Oswald and
taken out of my house.”
(https://www.kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/oswald-and-the-shot-at-walker-redressing-the-balance)
Also, the first police description of the bullet said it "was a steel jacket bullet," and the supposed Walker bullet in evidence, CE 573, does not contain Lt. Day's chain-of-evidence mark. Cole and Gram discuss some of the evidence that CE 573 is not the Walker bullet:
The original and official DPD reports described a relatively rare “steel jacketed”
slug found in the Walker home, on April 10, 1963, the night of the shooting.
The bullet was handled and initialed through inscribing by four DPD officers.
But CE 573—the WC’s purported Walker Bullet—is obviously copper-jacketed.
The extremely thin Warren Commission questioning of FBI agent Frazier, as to
how and why the Walker Bullet could ever be described as “steel jacketed” by
DPD detectives. Frazier answered that “some individuals refer to all rifle bullets
as steel jacketed,” a novel and unique observation. There is nothing in police or
FBI literature to suggest police detectives or FBI special agents anywhere ever
described “all rifle bullets” as steel jacketed—especially when copper-jacketed
rifle bullets were and are the norm.
Lt. Day of the Dallas Police Department, stating unequivocally to the FBI and
then to the WC that he had carved the true Walker slug with his name “DAY” and a
cross. No such markings can be seen on CE 573, even under a microscope.
The lack of same-day April 10, 1963, or indeed any Dallas Police Department
photographs of the true Walker Bullet. The true Walker Bullet was never
photographed or, if it was, the photographs have disappeared. Moreover, there
are no surviving written DPD lab reports on the Walker Bullet that describe the
slug as steel- or copper-jacketed.
The weak chain of evidence confirmation by the FBI-WC on the provenance
of CE 573. The FBI in 1964 showed a slug purported to be the Walker Bullet
only to Norvell, the DPD patrolman, who at best handled the slug briefly 14
months earlier. The FBI did not show the purported Walker Bullet to detectives
McElroy or Van Cleave.
(https://www.kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/1408)
Four, I see that Mytton is once again trotting out the backyard rifle photos as supposed proof of Oswald's guilt in both the Walker shooting and the JFK shooting. Those photos are as phony as a three-dollar bill. See
The HSCA and Fraud in the Backyard Rifle Photos
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JiOqKWO-XJSO-z_lk6bSgUBXq_vD1yZs/view
Are you guys ever, ever, ever going to deal with the parallax measurements showing the impossibly microscopic differences in distances between objects in the backgrounds of the photos? There is no way on this planet that photos taken with a cheap handheld camera that was supposedly handed back and forth to advance the film would have such impossibly tiny differences in the distances between the objects in the backgrounds in the photos. This is not to mention that the variant shadows in the photos have never been duplicated, among other problems with the photos.
Five, apparently it has not occurred to any of you to wonder how your supposed skilled "sharpshooter" assassin managed to miss Walker from less than 120 feet away while having all the time in the world to aim and fire. Yet, you claim this is the same guy who performed a shooting feat against JFK that the three Master-rated riflemen in the WC's shooting simulation, using the alleged murder weapon, did not even come close to duplicating, even though they fired from only 30 feet up, fired at a stationary target boards, and took as much time as they wanted for their first shot.
Six, the attempts to explain why Oswald would try to shoot the rabid right-winger Walker and then turn around and shoot the man whom Walker had publicly condemned, i.e., JFK, border on incoherent.
Seven, the NAA testing that supposedly linked the Walker bullet to Oswald's rifle was discredited nearly 20 years ago.
https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna18709539
https://www.osti.gov/servlets/purl/900118
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