A History of the Single-Bullet Theory Follies

[Tim Nickerson]

Latimer lacked the "ne" in his qualifications to be a neurologist.

His theory that JFK assumed the "Thorburn position" is not supported by any qualified neurologist.  The original report of Dr. Thorburn shows that it took a few days for the unfortunate falling victim to assume the "Thorburn position" and that was because the spinal cord was crushed between the 5th and 6th vertebrae which resulted in: "complete paralysis of the lower limbs, and of the abdominal and thoracic muscles. All the muscles of the arms were paralysed, with the exception of the biceps, brachialis antiens, supinator longus and deltoid, the consequence being that the elbows were flexed, the shoulder abducted and rotated outwards, and the hands and arms fell into the position indicated in the annexed engraving (Fig. 1)":

https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Thorburn+position

That one will piss off a lot of CTs. 

I prefer St*rdivan's description myself. He says that the damage to the spinal nerves caused by the shockwave of the single bullet passing by  resulted in Kennedy assuming that "Thorburn-like posture".

[Michael T. Griffith]

This is not an argument just against the SBT.  It is an argument that the bullet did not transit JFK's neck.  That appears to be at odds with all the evidence.

[SNIP]

Your argument about the trajectory not going from JFK's throat to JBC's right armpit is reasonable one that has evidentiary support.  But not the suggestion that a bullet did not transit JFK's neck.

The idea that a bullet transited JFK's neck is at odds with all of the best evidence that we now have:

-- The ARRB disclosures about the absolute, complete, final determination during the autopsy that the back wound had no exit point.

-- The fact that the shirt slits were made by the nurses.

-- The fact that JFK's tie had no hole in it, only a small nick near the left edge of the knot.

-- The fact that the shirt slits had no metallic traces around them, had no fabric missing from them, and were below the inside collar band. The photographic evidence makes it clear that JFK's tie knot was neatly centered between the collar band, which proves that no bullet could have exited the slits and then created a nick near the left edge on the surface of the tie knot.

-- The fact that there was no path from the back wound to the throat wound without smashing through the spine--not just nicking the edge of C7 or T1 but smashing through the middle part of the spine, as Dr. Mantik established with an overhead CT scan of an adult male with the same height and width as JFK.

-- The fact that the throat wound was only 3-5 mm in diameter, neat, and punched-in.

-- The fact that the damage that the Parkland doctors observed under/behind the throat wound clearly indicated the bullet ranged downward into his chest.

-- The hard physical evidence of the rear clothing holes in JFK's coat and shirt, which prove the back wound was too low on the back to have exited the throat, even if we did not already know that on the night of the autopsy, the pathologists absolutely, positively, and completely determined that the back wound had no exit point. 

[Andrew Mason]

I prefer St*rdivan's description myself. He says that the damage to the spinal nerves caused by the shockwave of the single bullet passing by  resulted in Kennedy assuming that "Thorburn-like posture".

And what qualifications in neurology does Larry Sturdivan have?   

As far as I can tell, no qualified neurologist and no documented case establishes that:

• the so-called Thorburn position is a reflex position.
• that it is assumed where there is no compression or damage to the spinal cord
• that JFK's reaction could be anything other than a natural response to startle or pain and "air hunger" as he struggles to breathe.

We have a spine to protect the spinal cord from the effects of impacts to the body.  The 2000 fps bullet passed within 1-2 inches from the spine in 1 to 2 24000ths of a second. If it lost 600 Joules of its initial 1860 Joules of energy in passing through the neck, that means it deposited about 1/3rd of that or 200 Joules in the region near the spine.  But that is over a complete 360 degrees around the bullet.  In the direction of the spine it would be maybe 1/8th of that or 25 Joules.

25 Joules is the energy that a 25 watt lightbulb puts out in 1 second or the energy of a baseball moving at 18 m/sec or 40 mph. 

[Andrew Mason]

The idea that a bullet transited JFK's neck is at odds with all of the best evidence that we now have:

-- The ARRB disclosures about the absolute, complete, final determination during the autopsy that the back wound had no exit point.

....Until they discovered that the tracheostomy was done at the same location as the pre-existing throat wound.  Nurse Heschliffe saw the throat wound which she described as a small round hole (6 H 141):

• Mr. SPECTER. Did you see any wound on any other part of his body?
  Miss HESCHLIFFE. Yes; in the neck.
  Mr. SPECTER. Will you describe it. please?
  Miss HESCHLIFFE. It was just a little hole in the middle of his neck.
  Mr. SPECTER. About how big a hole was it?
  Miss HESCHLIFFE. About as big around as the end of my little finger.

This was also seen by Dr. Carrico:  "We opened his shirt and coat and tie and observed a small wound in the anterior lower third of the neck" (6 H 3) and by Dr. Perry: "Dr. PERRY. The wound was roughly spherical to oval in shape, not a punched out wound, actually, nor was it particularly ragged. It was rather clean cut, but the blood obscured any detail about the edges of the wound exactly" (6 H 9).
 

-- The fact that the shirt slits were made by the nurses.

That is not the evidence. The cut to the tie to the left side of the knot and was a clean cut :

They had pulled the tie down before cutting it.  You can see this from the tie in CE395.

-- The fact that JFK's tie had no hole in it, only a small nick near the left edge of the knot.

That nick was closely examined by the FBI and found to be elongated horizontally (Frazier 5 H 62).  The tie was cut vertically.

-- The fact that the shirt slits had no metallic traces around them, had no fabric missing from them, and were below the inside collar band. The photographic evidence makes it clear that JFK's tie knot was neatly centered between the collar band, which proves that no bullet could have exited the slits and then created a nick near the left edge on the surface of the tie knot.

They did not cut the tie near the throat. How would they cut the shirt underneath the tie knot?

[Tim Nickerson]

And what qualifications in neurology does Larry Sturdivan have?   

As far as I can tell, no qualified neurologist and no documented case establishes that:

• the so-called Thorburn position is a reflex position.
• that it is assumed where there is no compression or damage to the spinal cord
• that JFK's reaction could be anything other than a natural response to startle or pain and "air hunger" as he struggles to breathe.

We have a spine to protect the spinal cord from the effects of impacts to the body.  The 2000 fps bullet passed within 1-2 inches from the spine in 1 to 2 24000ths of a second. If it lost 600 Joules of its initial 1860 Joules of energy in passing through the neck, that means it deposited about 1/3rd of that or 200 Joules in the region near the spine.  But that is over a complete 360 degrees around the bullet.  In the direction of the spine it would be maybe 1/8th of that or 25 Joules.

25 Joules is the energy that a 25 watt lightbulb puts out in 1 second or the energy of a baseball moving at 18 m/sec or 40 mph.

Sturdivan's main expertise is wound ballistics. He has had his work published in peer-reviewed  journals. One such being "BALLISTICS FOR THE NEUROSURGEON" published in Neurosurgery, which is the official journal of the Congress of Neurological Surgeons. His work has also been published in The Journal of Trauma and Acute Care Surgery, Journal of Surgical Research, and  Computers in Biology and Medicine, to name a few others. He did not call the position that Kennedy assumed immediately post single bullet shot the Thorburn Position. He said that JFK assumed a Thorburn-like posture.

[Andrew Mason]

Sturdivan's main expertise is wound ballistics.

Which requires no qualifications in any medical field. Sturdivan had no medical education.  He studied how bullets damage the body using animals and ballistic gel as targets. He has no qualifications to opine on the neurological effect of bullets.

He has had his work published in peer-reviewed  journals. One such being "BALLISTICS FOR THE NEUROSURGEON" published in Neurosurgery, which is the official journal of the Congress of Neurological Surgeons.

He was one of several authors. The others had medical qualifications. So the publication does not mean he has any neurological qualifications.  He can say that a bullet can create a pressure in the skull or neck but he can’t say what the neurological effect is.

He did not call the position that Kennedy assumed immediately post single bullet shot the Thorburn Position. He said that JFK assumed a Thorburn-like posture.

He was simply following Latimer. And has been noted Latimer was a urologist not a neurologist.

[Tim Nickerson]

Which requires no qualifications in any medical field. Sturdivan had no medical education.

The fact that he's a wound ballistics expert contradicts your assertion.

He studied how bullets damage the body using animals and ballistic gel as targets. He has no qualifications to opine on the neurological effect of bullets.

If that was the case, the HSCA would not have had him testify or would have challenged the testimony that he gave.

He was one of several authors. The others had medical qualifications.

So what?

So the publication does not mean he has any neurological qualifications.

That he is named as one of the authors indicates that he has some neurological expertise.

He can say that a bullet can create a pressure in the skull or neck but he can’t say what the neurological effect is.

Why can't he say what the neurological effect is?

He was simply following Latimer. And has been noted Latimer was a urologist not a neurologist.

He was not following Lattimer. He was stating a known fact. When the seventh and eighth cervical nerves are damaged, everything below is disabled. With Thorburn's patient, the damage to spinal nerves at the level of C6 was gradual. With JFK, the damage to the nerves at the level of C7 was instantaneous. That's why Sturdivan referred to the position assumed by JFK as a Thorburn-like Posture. In reality, he could have just referred to it as the Thorburn Position.

[Michael T. Griffith]

....Until they discovered that the tracheostomy was done at the same location as the pre-existing throat wound.

That myth was debunked years ago. The autopsy doctors knew about the throat wound. They even probed it. Keep in mind that we know that at least one of the early drafts of the autopsy report, written after Humes supposedly first learned of the throat wound, said nothing about the wound being an exit point for the back wound. The Parkland doctors' 11/22 press conference was broadcast on national TV, and in that presser Dr. Perry twice said the throat wound was an entrance wound. Dr. Robert Livingston, the scientific director at NIH at the time, saw that press conference and called Dr. Humes to discuss the throat wound before the autopsy began.

I recommend that you read about the ARRB and other disclosures regarding the fact that the autopsy doctors were absolutely, totally, positively certain that the back wound had no exit point. They established this with multiple probings. They removed the chest organs and positioned the body "every which way" to facilitate the probing. People near the autopsy table could see the end of the probe pushing up against the lining of the chest cavity. This explains why one of the early drafts of the autopsy report said the throat wound was caused by an exiting head-shot fragment.

When the HSCA interviewed autopsy witness Richard Lipsey, who was General Wehle's aide at the autopsy, he was very worried that his disclosure about the non-exiting back wound would be made public. Lipsey explained that the autopsy doctors positively established that the back wound had no exit point:

The other bullet had entered from behind and hit his chest cavity and the
bullet went down into the body. And during the autopsy, this is the only part
that I can imagine would be of any--really, what I’ve told you right there,
of strictly confidential nature that was never written up anywhere. And I
presume, am I right, that this tape and this conversation is strictly confidential?
You know, it’s not going to be published I guess is what I’m getting at? . . .

They turned the body up at one point to determine where that bullet that
entered back here that didn't have an exit mark. Where was that bullet?
And so when it got to down to where they thought it hit his chest cavity,
they opened him up and started looking in here. That's why I remember
one thing, they took, after they had taken all his organs out, during the
autopsy they had them sitting up there: "Now let's see if we can find the
bullet." They cut all his organs apart.

A number of other witnesses described how thoroughly and extensively the pathologists tried to find the exit point for the back wound and the bullet that had created it. One of the disclosures includes the fact that Finck announced toward the end of the autopsy that he had determined the back wound had no exit point.

Finck was the only forensic pathologist at the autopsy. When Finck indicated he was going to dissect the back wound, a standard and crucial autopsy procedure, a senior military officer ordered him not to do so, as Finck admitted in his testimony at the Clay Shaw trial. When Finck asked to examine JFK's clothing, another crucial and standard autopsy procedure, a senior military officer said he did not need to see the clothing. There was a reason that Humes and Boswell excluded Finck from the first brain exam that was done two to three days after the autopsy.

Nurse Heschliffe saw the throat wound which she described as a small round hole (6 H 141):

• Mr. SPECTER. Did you see any wound on any other part of his body?
  Miss HESCHLIFFE. Yes; in the neck.
  Mr. SPECTER. Will you describe it. please?
  Miss HESCHLIFFE. It was just a little hole in the middle of his neck.
  Mr. SPECTER. About how big a hole was it?
  Miss HESCHLIFFE. About as big around as the end of my little finger.

Yes, and the throat wound was also punched-in and not jagged, and there was more damage behind the wound than to the surface of the wound, clear indications of an entrance wound.

This was also seen by Dr. Carrico:  "We opened his shirt and coat and tie and observed a small wound in the anterior lower third of the neck" (6 H 3)

Carrico was not saying that he didn't see the throat wound until after they opened the shirt and coat. Carrico specified to Dulles that the throat wound was above the tie/collar. Carrico explained this in detail when interviewed by Harold Weisberg. He was adamant that the throat wound was above the tie and was visible before they removed the shirt. Dr. Ronald Jones said the same thing. I cover this in more detail in the OP for the thread "The Entrance Wound in the Throat, the Front Shirt Slits, and Tie Knot Nick."

and by Dr. Perry: "Dr. PERRY. The wound was roughly spherical to oval in shape, not a punched out wound, actually, nor was it particularly ragged. It was rather clean cut, but the blood obscured any detail about the edges of the wound exactly" (6 H 9).

Yeap, all of which are indications of an entry wound.

That is not the evidence. The cut to the tie to the left side of the knot and was a clean cut:
They had pulled the tie down before cutting it. You can see this from the tie in CE395.
That nick was closely examined by the FBI and found to be elongated horizontally (Frazier 5 H 62).  The tie was cut vertically.

First off, none of this addresses the fact that no bullet exiting the shirt slits could have made a nick near the left edge of the tie knot. We have ample photographic evidence that JFK's tie knot was neatly centered between the collar band. A bullet exiting the slits would have had to tear through the middle of the bottom half of the tie knot, but there was no hole in the tie. No bullet exiting the slits could not have magically weaved around the body of the tie knot to create a nick near the left edge. That is a manifestly impossible scenario. These facts alone destroy the SBT.

Dr. Carrico said he saw no nick in the tie until after the nurses started cutting away the clothing. We have to remember that the nurses were in an extreme hurry when they began cutting off the clothing. It is entirely reasonable to assume that one of the nurses accidentally nicked the tie knot before steadying herself and snipping the tie above the knot.

They did not cut the tie near the throat. How would they cut the shirt underneath the tie knot?

Again, Dr. Carrico and one of the nurses confirmed that the nurses made the shirt slits. There is no fabric missing from the slits. If a bullet had made the shirt slits, some fabric would be missing, but none is missing. Also, both Weisberg and Mantik reported that they could see the jagged edges of a sharp blade when they examined the slits under high magnification.