JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate > JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate
A History of the Single-Bullet Theory Follies
Michael T. Griffith:
--- Quote from: Andrew Mason on August 06, 2025, 10:30:56 PM ---This is not an argument just against the SBT. It is an argument that the bullet did not transit JFK's neck. That appears to be at odds with all the evidence.
[SNIP]
Your argument about the trajectory not going from JFK's throat to JBC's right armpit is reasonable one that has evidentiary support. But not the suggestion that a bullet did not transit JFK's neck.
--- End quote ---
The idea that a bullet transited JFK's neck is at odds with all of the best evidence that we now have:
-- The ARRB disclosures about the absolute, complete, final determination during the autopsy that the back wound had no exit point.
-- The fact that the shirt slits were made by the nurses.
-- The fact that JFK's tie had no hole in it, only a small nick near the left edge of the knot.
-- The fact that the shirt slits had no metallic traces around them, had no fabric missing from them, and were below the inside collar band. The photographic evidence makes it clear that JFK's tie knot was neatly centered between the collar band, which proves that no bullet could have exited the slits and then created a nick near the left edge on the surface of the tie knot.
-- The fact that there was no path from the back wound to the throat wound without smashing through the spine--not just nicking the edge of C7 or T1 but smashing through the middle part of the spine, as Dr. Mantik established with an overhead CT scan of an adult male with the same height and width as JFK.
-- The fact that the throat wound was only 3-5 mm in diameter, neat, and punched-in.
-- The fact that the damage that the Parkland doctors observed under/behind the throat wound clearly indicated the bullet ranged downward into his chest.
-- The hard physical evidence of the rear clothing holes in JFK's coat and shirt, which prove the back wound was too low on the back to have exited the throat, even if we did not already know that on the night of the autopsy, the pathologists absolutely, positively, and completely determined that the back wound had no exit point.
Andrew Mason:
--- Quote from: Tim Nickerson on August 06, 2025, 11:26:22 PM ---
I prefer St*rdivan's description myself. He says that the damage to the spinal nerves caused by the shockwave of the single bullet passing by resulted in Kennedy assuming that "Thorburn-like posture".
--- End quote ---
And what qualifications in neurology does Larry Sturdivan have?
As far as I can tell, no qualified neurologist and no documented case establishes that:
* the so-called Thorburn position is a reflex position.
* that it is assumed where there is no compression or damage to the spinal cord
* that JFK's reaction could be anything other than a natural response to startle or pain and "air hunger" as he struggles to breathe.We have a spine to protect the spinal cord from the effects of impacts to the body. The 2000 fps bullet passed within 1-2 inches from the spine in 1 to 2 24000ths of a second. If it lost 600 Joules of its initial 1860 Joules of energy in passing through the neck, that means it deposited about 1/3rd of that or 200 Joules in the region near the spine. But that is over a complete 360 degrees around the bullet. In the direction of the spine it would be maybe 1/8th of that or 25 Joules.
25 Joules is the energy that a 25 watt lightbulb puts out in 1 second or the energy of a baseball moving at 18 m/sec or 40 mph.
Andrew Mason:
--- Quote from: Michael T. Griffith on August 08, 2025, 03:57:06 PM ---The idea that a bullet transited JFK's neck is at odds with all of the best evidence that we now have:
-- The ARRB disclosures about the absolute, complete, final determination during the autopsy that the back wound had no exit point.
--- End quote ---
....Until they discovered that the tracheostomy was done at the same location as the pre-existing throat wound. Nurse Heschliffe saw the throat wound which she described as a small round hole (6 H 141):
* Mr. SPECTER. Did you see any wound on any other part of his body?
Miss HESCHLIFFE. Yes; in the neck.
Mr. SPECTER. Will you describe it. please?
Miss HESCHLIFFE. It was just a little hole in the middle of his neck.
Mr. SPECTER. About how big a hole was it?
Miss HESCHLIFFE. About as big around as the end of my little finger.
This was also seen by Dr. Carrico: "We opened his shirt and coat and tie and observed a small wound in the anterior lower third of the neck" (6 H 3) and by Dr. Perry: "Dr. PERRY. The wound was roughly spherical to oval in shape, not a punched out wound, actually, nor was it particularly ragged. It was rather clean cut, but the blood obscured any detail about the edges of the wound exactly" (6 H 9).
--- Quote ----- The fact that the shirt slits were made by the nurses.
--- End quote ---
That is not the evidence. The cut to the tie to the left side of the knot and was a clean cut :
They had pulled the tie down before cutting it. You can see this from the tie in CE395.
--- Quote ----- The fact that JFK's tie had no hole in it, only a small nick near the left edge of the knot.
--- End quote ---
That nick was closely examined by the FBI and found to be elongated horizontally (Frazier 5 H 62). The tie was cut vertically.
--- Quote ----- The fact that the shirt slits had no metallic traces around them, had no fabric missing from them, and were below the inside collar band. The photographic evidence makes it clear that JFK's tie knot was neatly centered between the collar band, which proves that no bullet could have exited the slits and then created a nick near the left edge on the surface of the tie knot.
--- End quote ---
They did not cut the tie near the throat. How would they cut the shirt underneath the tie knot?
Tim Nickerson:
--- Quote from: Andrew Mason on August 08, 2025, 05:37:19 PM ---And what qualifications in neurology does Larry Sturdivan have?
As far as I can tell, no qualified neurologist and no documented case establishes that:
* the so-called Thorburn position is a reflex position.
* that it is assumed where there is no compression or damage to the spinal cord
* that JFK's reaction could be anything other than a natural response to startle or pain and "air hunger" as he struggles to breathe.We have a spine to protect the spinal cord from the effects of impacts to the body. The 2000 fps bullet passed within 1-2 inches from the spine in 1 to 2 24000ths of a second. If it lost 600 Joules of its initial 1860 Joules of energy in passing through the neck, that means it deposited about 1/3rd of that or 200 Joules in the region near the spine. But that is over a complete 360 degrees around the bullet. In the direction of the spine it would be maybe 1/8th of that or 25 Joules.
25 Joules is the energy that a 25 watt lightbulb puts out in 1 second or the energy of a baseball moving at 18 m/sec or 40 mph.
--- End quote ---
Sturdivan's main expertise is wound ballistics. He has had his work published in peer-reviewed journals. One such being "BALLISTICS FOR THE NEUROSURGEON" published in Neurosurgery, which is the official journal of the Congress of Neurological Surgeons. His work has also been published in The Journal of Trauma and Acute Care Surgery, Journal of Surgical Research, and Computers in Biology and Medicine, to name a few others. He did not call the position that Kennedy assumed immediately post single bullet shot the Thorburn Position. He said that JFK assumed a Thorburn-like posture.
Andrew Mason:
--- Quote from: Tim Nickerson on August 09, 2025, 05:17:10 AM ---Sturdivan's main expertise is wound ballistics.
--- End quote ---
Which requires no qualifications in any medical field. Sturdivan had no medical education. He studied how bullets damage the body using animals and ballistic gel as targets. He has no qualifications to opine on the neurological effect of bullets.
--- Quote ---He has had his work published in peer-reviewed journals. One such being "BALLISTICS FOR THE NEUROSURGEON" published in Neurosurgery, which is the official journal of the Congress of Neurological Surgeons.
--- End quote ---
He was one of several authors. The others had medical qualifications. So the publication does not mean he has any neurological qualifications. He can say that a bullet can create a pressure in the skull or neck but he can’t say what the neurological effect is.
--- Quote ---He did not call the position that Kennedy assumed immediately post single bullet shot the Thorburn Position. He said that JFK assumed a Thorburn-like posture.
--- End quote ---
He was simply following Latimer. And has been noted Latimer was a urologist not a neurologist.
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